Client Retention Strategies That Drive Growth — Customer Experience with Francis Flair

In this episode of Small Business Pivots, Michael Morrison sits down with Francis Flair (Flair Consulting Group) to break down client retention systems and why customer experience is the #1 revenue multiplier for scaling businesses.

Francis shares his journey from Ghana, West Africa to building a consulting firm that helps service-based and scaling companies improve customer experience, employee experience, and retention—because “for every client you keep, it’s a competitor you beat.”

You’ll learn:

• Why retention multiplies growth (and why profits hide in retention—not acquisition) 
• How to “think from the market” instead of “thinking for the market”
• The simple (not easy) way to identify your audience: ask better questions and test offers
• Why your people aren’t the problem—your systems (SOPs) are 
• How brands like Chick-fil-A, Disney, Amazon, and Southwest set expectations that become your competition
• The 5 mistakes that sabotage customer experience (and how to fix them)

The 5 Mistakes Most Service Businesses Make (Francis Flair):

1. Not realizing customer experience is the #1 revenue multiplier
2. Thinking the staff is the problem (instead of the system)
3. Believing great service is “common sense” (and not defining what “great” means)
4. Wanting the team to care—but not showing the team you care
5. Treating customer service like a department (instead of an identity)

Timestamps

00:00 Francis Flair + what Flair Consulting Group does
02:10 From Ghana to the U.S.—the origin story
06:40 The pivot into consulting + “create your own economy”
10:35 Think from the market vs for the market
14:05 “Just ask”—how to discover what customers really want
18:30 Retention vs acquisition—where profits actually hide
24:10 Chick-fil-A vs Popeyes—what the numbers reveal
29:20 5 mistakes that break customer experience (overview)
31:10 Mistake #2: People aren’t the problem—systems are
36:30 Mistake #3: Define “great” or employees will decide
41:10 Mistake #4: Want them to care? Show them you care
47:40 Mistake #5: Customer service is an identity, not a department
53:10 Final takeaway + where to connect with Francis

Chapters

• 0:00 Guest Intro And Mission
• 1:17 Host Welcome And Sponsor Plug
• 1:50 Origin Story From Ghana
• 4:30 Career Pivots And Starting The Firm
• 5:11 Why Positioning And Clarity Matter
• 6:57 Knowing Your Audience
• 8:25 Think From The Market
• 9:15 Just Ask Your Customers
• 11:14 Designing Irresistible Offers
• 13:09 Retention As Revenue Multiplier
• 15:48 Popeyes Vs Chick-fil-A Lesson
• 18:05 Five Common CX Mistakes
• 18:28 Mistake 1: Ignoring CX’s ROI
• 19:22 Sponsor Break And Reset
• 19:51 Mistake 2: People Aren’t The Problem
• 22:15 Systems Over Unicorn Hires
• 24:08 Mistake 3: Common Sense Isn’t Common
• 26:21 Define What Great Looks Like
• 28:01 Mistake 4: Care For Your Team First
• 31:45 Culture Flows From Leadership
• 34:10 Mistake 5: CX Isn’t A Department
• 37:30 Everyone Has A Customer
• 41:10 Competing With Disney And Amazon
• 44:06 Works Across Industries
• 45:01 Closing And Calls To Action

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

All right. Welcome to another Small Business Pivots where we bring special guests from all around the world. Today we have a very dear friend of mine from the past, a blast from the past. We've met and talked several times. And so I'm anxious for y'all to get to hear him. But I know that only the business owner can say their name and their business like the business owner. So I turn it over to you to let that let you do that introduction.

SPEAKER_00: 0:27

Well, thank you for having me here. It's a pleasure to be here and looking forward to delivering value for your listeners, viewers, uh, however they consume this. My name is Francis with Flair Consulting Group, and we help scaling businesses build client retention systems. Because we believe for every client that you keep, it's a competitor that you beat. And so we are here helping companies build their employee experience systems, their customer experience systems, and how that drives revenue and protects profits along the way.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03

Awesome. Well, for our listeners, if you haven't caught every episode, this is the first time we've been talking about this. So I'm just as excited as everybody else is. So let's introduce the show real quick and we'll be right back. Welcome to Small Business Pivots, a podcast produced for small business owners. I'm your host, Michael Morrison, founder and CEO of Boss, where we make business ownership simplified for success. Our business is helping yours grow. Boss offers business loans with business coaching support. Apply in minutes and get approved and funded in as little as 24 to 48 hours at business ownership simplified.com. All right, welcome back to Small Business Pivots, my friend. We all have a story. We all grew up somewhere. Can you just kind of catch us up to date so our listeners know just a little bit about you?

SPEAKER_00: 2:02

Yes, absolutely. And and that would be opening a Pandora's box. Uh so if you can tell uh from my exotic accent, you probably think I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Uh, I'm kidding if you didn't catch that. But um, I'm originally from Ghana, West Africa. Uh, grew up in an orphanage in Ghana. Um, I had one dream, which was to go to school in the US. I had no clue how that was going to be possible. I had a uh well, there was an American missionary at this uh at the orphanage who said, Well, I mean, that is wild. However, if you do your part, we'll see what God will do. And so I went on, did my part, studying, working hard, doing what I was supposed to do. And uh somehow it it all worked out. And so that's how I got to the US and then I graduated college, um, dropped out, well, flanked out out of PT school. I wanted to become a doctor, so I flanked out. Um uh when that didn't work out, I still wanted to be in the healthcare industry. And so I went, got a master's degree uh in leadership and entrepreneurship, with a focus in healthcare administration. Uh, with the intent that one day I'll manage a healthcare system as a CEO. Uh, but then when I graduated from the uh program, I realized uh that was not what was it like my expectations were not met because every job I applied for, it was, well, you don't have a healthcare experience. I'm like, well, but I have a master's degree, like I have right. So that frustration, I remember one time I drove all the way from Oklahoma, well, from Tulsa to Houston and back in one day just for an interview. It just didn't work out. And before I had moved to Tulsa, I was in Florida at the time, and I had I had helped my previous employer turn around uh the business model, turn around the business. Uh we increased profits, we reduced turnover from 35 to less than 5% in 18 months. We were charging over 30% um more than the nearest competitor, and this was in dry cleaning. And we did that through the experience. Like we wanted to become a premium experience, uh premium brand. And so we were delivering great experience that all these things happen because we focus on the service and the experience. And so, with my frustration after graduating, so like, well, I have an expertise, I have proven that this thing works. Uh, I had gone to Disney, uh, went underground, learned the principles, see how they were applying it. I had worked with some of the best in the industry uh when it comes to customer experience. And it was like, well, I have this expertise. What am I waiting for? Like, let me go on and create my own economy. And so that's how we ended up starting uh Fled Consulting Group, uh, helping companies build retention systems.

SPEAKER_01: 5:00

Well, that's that's uh quite the story. So glad you're here to help all the people that you are. I know you're very active on social media. So let's start with the company. I the show is small business pivots. So let's talk about a couple of pivots that you've made. Uh and you mentioned that you're fixing the pivot again or a new product. And so let's talk about the process of that before we get into the meat and the potatoes of what you offer, because pivoting is a big deal in any business.

SPEAKER_00: 5:32

Yes. And uh for me, I think pivoting and and and through my life story, it's all been pivot, uh pivot, right? From um growing up with nothing to the orphanage, had to pivot, wanting to go to the US, had to pivot. Um, and then the challenges I had, uh trying to find a job that didn't work, I had to pivot. So throughout my life, it it's all been about pivot. Uh, but for me, it it has been a matter of being consistent and believing in what I feel is right and what is best at all times. And that's what has led me here. Um in a company, some of the pivots I've I've had to make is really thinking about positioning and framing of how I market myself. And that is key because I have to first understand what a customer needs, what a client wants. But I think the challenge has been how do I make it succinct? How do I make it easy so they can understand what it is that we are working on at the end of the day? And so the pivot has been more about me getting clear about the things that I want to get done or the message I want to send out, and what does that look like for the customer?

SPEAKER_01: 6:53

You mentioned the key word there, which is kind of a great segue into the first topic. I've got two I'd like to cover. The first one is I don't think it's it's impossible to scale if you don't know your audience. And you kind of mentioned finding clarity and pivots along the way. Can you kind of talk about how to know who your audience is?

SPEAKER_00: 7:14

Yeah, I think sometimes, and this is something I'm learning as well. Sometimes I think when you look at my story, for example, and I think a lot of business leaders, executives, uh, entrepreneurs will probably resonate with that. Like we are passionate about something, and so we go on and we start a business, right? And that excitement, we we let that guide us in how we make decisions. However, in the marketplace is different, and so we come to the marketplace thinking for the marketplace instead of thinking from the marketplace. And that has been a pivot I've had to make. Thinking from the marketplace instead of thinking for the marketplace. And that's huge, and like because that makes all the difference. Like, and I mean, we were talking right before we got started, like people don't care about what I do until they care about the only thing they care about, which is the with him, right? What's in it for me, right? The W I F M. So it's clearly truly thinking and putting myself in the shoes of my customer and thinking, and I think this is a great exercise, uh, where you begin to think about all the possible problems your customers are going through, like what challenges they have, regardless of what product or service that you sell. I think a good way to really come up with that clarity and to know who you serve is to truly uh immerse yourself and think about the customer in every way possible. Because that's the only way you can find clarity in that. But I think the key is thinking from the market instead of thinking for the market, because that's where the answers are.

SPEAKER_01: 8:55

And I think it's kind of an obvious answer, but it may not be. What are the best ways to find that out? Because I know a lot of business owners will try to, well, they're probably feeling this or they're probably feeling that, but that's not really a good method, I wouldn't think, of trying to figure it out for them. What are some best practices that you found to find that information?

SPEAKER_00: 9:20

Well, like a coach once told me, just ask. Just ask. Yeah, it's it's it's as simple as that. Like sometimes you can know it all, you you can figure it all out. But I think you you you you save so much time, energy, and resource if you ask. Because sometimes I think as entrepreneurs, we can it's easier for us to just be by ourselves and we just can stay in a room and just try to come up with these solutions. But again, that's us thinking for the market instead of thinking from the market. So if you ask them, you can figure out what it is that they need, so you can spend the time and energy working on that rather than trying to go build it, bring it, and then it doesn't work. And you are like, what? And I've done that multiple times. Like sat down, create office, thinking that well, this is going to be it, and then you bring it to the marketplace and it's it's just dead on arrival. And so I think it's as simple as asking, like talking to people and making sure that you understand what it is that they need. Like there's no magic formula to it. You just have to ask people, test it out, uh, invite people to try it out if it makes sense in your world. But you just have to ask. You just have to ask friends, family, people in your circle, uh, the actual people you want to sell it to, like ask their opinions. That's it. Just ask.

SPEAKER_01: 10:49

Are there any questions that are better than others on asking? I've had a couple of people on marketing that have been very specific on the types of questions to ask. Because a lot of times we find, you know, people that are trying to find a solution, they really don't know what they're looking for. That's why they're looking for it. So, have you found any questions to be better than others to really get to the root of the problem?

SPEAKER_00: 11:14

Yeah, so for me, it it's really coming up with those series of questions. But I think first, in order to even come up with a question to ask, I think you have to do the homework of figuring out what it is that my prospect or my potential client needs. Like it's not just because this is all about creating an irresistible offer. Because that's what it is, like something that people see it and they want to buy, like they, they, they instantly know and feel that this is going to be a great um offer for them. This is something. So, like for me, for example, right? For me, like we talk about customer experience all the time, right? But for my offer to be irresistible, for it to be great, I need to be thinking about what the client wants, what the business needs in order to provide a great experience. It's not just taking care of the customer, it's also taking care of the employees, right? So helping them with hiring, helping them come up with a great employee experience uh system, uh, helping them with recruitment, helping them design what that employee experience journey looks like. So now it's a holistic thing. It's not just one specific aspect of the things that they want because without all these things that I've mentioned, in addition to the customer experience, they are not going to be successful. They may be, but they are not going to be as successful because turnover is a big deal. If you continuously are hiring people, it's going to be harder for you to be consistent with your customer experience. And so it's really thinking and figuring out what will make the client successful, what are the things that they need around whatever it is that you sell, I think trying to figure out and understanding what they are going through and what they need, I think that's how you begin to figure out what the right formula is. But in terms of a specific question to ask, I think after doing your homework, which is which is a lot of work, like trying to put yourself in the shoes of the customer, I think at that point you just show it to them and say, Hey, I'm I'm thinking about this. Will this make sense? Would this be beneficial? Would this be helpful? And it's just allowing them to take a look at it and be able to give you feedback.

SPEAKER_01: 13:30

That's that's great information. Because I know something you mentioned that is worth noting again, is you said it's a lot of work. So for business owners, this isn't something you just check the boxes and you're done. It's if you want to have a clear message or the best customer service, you've got to know what it is.

SPEAKER_00: 13:50

And until you find that, keep keep looking, right? Absolutely. I mean, it's simple, not easy. And I think that's what a lot of um entrepreneurs should struggle with. Like again, coming back to the Roving theme, like thinking for the market instead of from the market. Because if you're thinking from the market, then you begin to think about all the possible challenges your customer might have, might face, and then how can you wrap it around whatever it is that you offer? It's a far more easier conversation when a client feels that you understand what it is that they are going through and you've been able to put together an offer that represents what they go through in the day-to-day. But it's absolutely not easy. It's it's a lot of work to just sit down and come up with all the possible problems, like anything that you can think of, if you can write that down and then begin to come up with the solutions for them and then craft your offer around that. I think that's the game changer. That's a game changer.

SPEAKER_01: 14:51

The time that's spent is well worth it.

SPEAKER_00: 14:54

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 14:56

Your website says helping small businesses deliver a great customer experience, but then a little bit down the ways it says make customer customer experience your competitive advantage. How can that become their advantage?

SPEAKER_00: 15:11

Oh that's a loaded question. Yeah, that's that's a loaded question. So one big mistake that business leaders, uh, again, from my experience working in the marketplace, what I've found is that they don't know that customer experience is the number one revenue multiplier in their business. They focus on acquisition, and I see this a lot in uh scaling businesses, they focus on acquisition, which is great, right? Acquisition fools like scaling, like it's it's if you want to grow, you you're you're going to have to acquire. However, retention multiplies it. The profits hide in retention, not in acquisition. Right? And so if you are a business and you really want to survive and you really want to scale your business and grow your business, it's all about retention. The only way you get a retention is through the customer experience. Because if I mean global budget in the world, in terms of marketing, sales, and the customer experience, like anything in terms of when it comes to customer acquisition, 98% of those budgets are spent on marketing and advertising, which is great, but only 2% is spent on the customer experience. So can you imagine if we begin to just increase the customer experience budget just a little bit, right? Um and and and and and and and this is a good example. This is a good example here. In 2019, during the Popeye Sandwich uh challenge, I don't know if any anyone got in line, right? The line was long. I mean, you had to stay in there. Uh, but if you are listening to us, like did you join the challenge and did you ever go back? Or how often have you been back, right? Compare that to that of Chick-fil-A, for example. Chick-fil-A have less locations than Popeyes, makes way more. I think in 2000 2023, these were the global sales. Um Chick-fil-A made shy about 23 billion in 2023 sales. I think Popeyes made about six billion. Okay. Popeyes had over let's say 4,000 locations. Chick-fil-A has a little bit of over 2,000 locations as of that year. So compare these, right? Chick-fil-A is closed on Sundays. I mean, the numbers are telling us a story here. It's about retention. Like Chick-fil-A focuses on retention, and they do that by building customer experience systems. That's where the profits hide. So when it comes to scaling and growing a business, it's not about acquiring more, it's about retaining more. Because when you spend or when you increase the budget in the customer experience, what is happening? Your customers, your clients are doing the marketing and advertising for you. Nobody talks about average. And customers don't care about perfection. Customers understand and they know that you are going to mess up. Customers care about preparation. Are you prepared to make sure that when things go wrong, you will take care of them no matter what? That's what customers care about. Customers care about trust. And that's why if you focus on retention, building retention systems, you then make the customer experience your competitive advantage because you are focused on retention rather than acquiring. I mean, in the example with Popeyes, I mean they spend so much money within that time frame to get all this traffic. And just like many businesses out there, if you're spending all this money, budget, to get all the traffic, and if they're coming in, your experience does not match what they've seen, they're not going to come back. They're not going to come back. Retention is revenue.

SPEAKER_01: 19:26

Spot on, my son and I, there's a without saying names, there's a there's a fast food popular spot, and there were only about four cars in line. But because we know that burger place takes forever, we drove another five minutes to a Chick fil A that had about 15 cars in line because we knew they've got it down. We could get in and get out. Like we didn't even question the 15 cars. That's the power of customer experience and and retention that you're talking about. Talking about, I believe, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 20:02

Absolutely. And like subconsciously, right? It's happening, like in your example right now, like Chick-fil-A might have been longer, but you didn't even care. You didn't even realize it or recognized it. But you knew for sure no matter what you were going to be taking care of. That's the power of a great customer experience. It's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_01: 20:26

Wow. That that's amazing. So so you talk about the five mistakes that most small business service-based businesses make. Can we share those? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 20:38

Uh we just did one.

SPEAKER_01: 20:39

Uh no knowing that you're listening to small business pivots. This podcast is produced by my company, Boss. Our business is helping yours grow. Boss offers business loans with business coaching support. Apply in minutes and get approved and funded in as little as 24 to 48 hours at BusinessOwnership Simplified.com. If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the subscribe button and share it as well. Now let's get back to our special guest. Wow, that that's amazing. So so you talk about the five mistakes that most small business service-based businesses make.

SPEAKER_00: 21:20

Can we share those? Absolutely. Uh we just did one, uh, not knowing that customer experience is your number one multiplier. I mean, that that's a big one. So the second mistake would is thinking their staff is the problem, like thinking their people are the problem, right? So since we are we on Chick-fil-A, let's use that. Or I mean, any brand out there, again, if if you are listening to this, watching this, I would like you to do this exercise as well. And we can do this right now, Michael. Like, what brand comes to mind when you think of great service, right? Dah, Chick-fil-A. I think we all know that. Or whoever, whatever that is for you. It doesn't have to be Chick-fil-A, but it can be any local brand that none of us know of, right? So the next question is do you think these people just hired unicorns? They just go around looking for unicorns. Probably not. I think we all know that answer. So your people are not a problem. It's because you lack a system, right? Like all these brands or whatever brand that came to mind, they are not going around hiring unicorns. A great example here is uh Southwest Airlines. When they started, they were terrible, terrible at turnaround times. And in the airline industry, turnaround times is everything on-time arrival, on-time departures, the crew getting uh the planes ready for the next flight. Like, we all know this. Like, turnaround time is huge. Southwest were struggling. I mean, what was taking like like did they were just struggling? What do you think Southwest did? Did they went and just fired all their people, thinking, well, you guys are not good enough for us to help us get to the next level? Absolutely not. They went and studied the NASCAR pit crew. Because what it was taking Southwest like 30 minutes or more, it was taking the pit crew at least 30 seconds. Southwest went, studied them, and then turned around everything, built the right system, and turned Southwest was uh profitable, albeit whatever they have going on right now for over 35 years with all the big airlines combined, became more profitable because they built the right system. So it's not your people, it's because you don't have the right system. That's where it starts with, because oftentimes we think our people are not good enough. And this is what I say. Even if you're not good enough, it's still your problem as a business. Because you either got them that way, you knew they were not a good fit, and you still hired them. Recently, I had a client call me, say Francis uh from New York, sir. Francis, man, I have this employee, I don't know what to do. Like, I'm like, okay, tell me more. He keeps going, he keeps going. So I'm like, okay, so it sounds like he's not a good fit. He's like, yeah, he's not a good fit. I'm like, well, if it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit. There's your answer, right? You have to call me for that. Like we look for fit first before anything, right? He's like, Yeah, I'm like, Well, it's you. I mean, cost is cost. You keep them, it's going to cost you. You you let them go, it's going to cost you. So choose your poison, right?

SPEAKER_01: 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:38

And I think and and the takeaway from even that conversation I told him, like, hiring is guessing. No one gets it right. Because in the interview process, everyone is trying to put their best foot forward, right? You are well best behaved in the hiring process. You have to accept that as a leader. But once you figure out that this is not going to be the right fit, you cut your losses as soon as possible. Because it's only going to end up affecting your culture if you don't. And now you begin to build a shadow culture, and that creates more problems. So hiring is guessing, but as soon as you find out it's not the right fit, cut your losses.

SPEAKER_01: 25:19

Absolutely. I was watching uh one of those reality shows on businesses, and and one of the comments somebody made, uh, it was an entrepreneur consultant type person, and he said, if you think you're gonna have that conversation down the road, you know, letting this person go, why not just have it today? I was like, that's easy enough to understand.

SPEAKER_00: 25:43

Simple frame. Simple frame. So well, we are not enough. Good people are not enough.

SPEAKER_01: 25:50

No, uh, systems processes, and for business owners that aren't familiar with systems, because there's plenty of them out there, also known as SOPs and things like that. So system standard operating procedures. So so we get systems, we've got retention, we move on to number three.

SPEAKER_00: 26:08

Number three is is thinking that grid customer service or grid customer experience is common sense.

SPEAKER_01: 26:17

There's not a lot of common sense these days.

SPEAKER_00: 26:24

Um well common sense is not common practice. Let's start from there, okay? And even if we think it is, I have another exercise. If you're listening and watching this, what does great service look like? It is a question I ask uh consulting client when we start working together, and in a room when we have a steering committee, uh people helping drive this process. I will have 10 different answers if I had 10 different people in a room. All the answers are not wrong, they are all right, but they are not the same either, and that's the problem because if you don't define it, they will decide it. That's why you build systems and define what great looks like. Your employees will decide what great looks like if you don't define it, because then you're going to have styles, preferences, and not systems. That's what creates the inconsistency in your customer experience, and that's why customers don't come back. The same reverse, your customers will also decide it if you don't define it, because they can't trust you to deliver on that great promise consistently. It's not just delivering it, but they want to know that you can deliver it consistently. In your example that you gave earlier with the burger joint and that of Chick-fil-A, is because you didn't trust them to deliver that great experience consistently. Consistency is the key. So at the end of the day, if you think great service is common sense, it's probably the reason why you're you struggle with a lot of inconsistency in your business right now when it comes with a customer experience. Because common sense is not common practice. And if you're not defining what great looks like, they would decide it. Your employees and your customers will vote with your wallet.

SPEAKER_01: 28:25

Perfect example I'm thinking of, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. What is that feeling you have when you're at a sit-down restaurant, and the person taking your order does not write it down? Your automatic thought is it's coming out wrong. It's coming out wrong. But then all the other wait staff, you see them taking notes, writing down orders, and then there's always that one person. You know, you would think exactly what you're talking about. It's like for that consistent customer experience, everybody needs to write it down. I don't care if you've got a great memory, that's not how we do it here. Is that kind of what you're saying? Everybody follows the same system, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 29:09

Because you don't want your experience to be dependent on an individual, you want it to be dependent on the system, not on an individual. There are times where customers want to only deal with one employee within the company. Oh man, I love it when so and so is here. Or as a business leader, you don't want to be worried because a certain employee is the one working today, because you know they are not good enough. Again, back to the first mistake, right? If it's not good enough, it's probably still your fault because you made them that way or you got them that way. You never gave them the tools to be successful in their roles, or you knew they were not a good fit and you still hire them anyway, right? So, again, it comes back to leadership, it comes back to leadership.

SPEAKER_01: 30:00

I always share with entrepreneurs, I'm a business coach, and so I always share with them that the the mess that you have today, you either allowed it to happen or you created it to happen because you're the captain of the shit. So kind of uh lines with what you just said. Well, this is all good stuff. I can't wait to hear what the other two are.

SPEAKER_00: 30:20

What's the what's the next one? The next one is wanting your team to care but not showing them you care, wanting your team to care but not showing them you care. You see, um people are people and people are consistent. All people want to feel cared for, valued, and appreciated. The customer experience is driven by your people. You build the systems, but your people drive it. So if I don't feel valued, cared for, and appreciated as an employee, do you think I will be more willing or less willing to go on and be nice, kind, courteous to a total stranger? That is not happening. It's just human nature, and so like as leaders, we have to recognize that like we're dealing with people and people are consistent. There's an actual study by Bain and Company where they looked at why is it that employee engagement are low, like focusing on employee engagement. And I think this should be scary to every business leader, like talking even about the last point we just did about not defining things, is that employee engagement scores are the lowest among service and sales team members. Let us sink in for a minute, right? These are the same people who interact with our customers the most, yet they are the least engaged. That's terrifying. Yeah, yeah, right, but why is that the case? It's because when a customer is upset, when we mess up, when there's a breakdown, where's that frustration first going to that service and sales team member? Then behind the scenes, the manager, the supervisor is also on them telling them about something bad they've done or they are not meeting their quotas, like so their caps run empty, and so they are the least engaged, and we have to understand that culture flows down, not up. So the culture you want as a company, it has to flow from the top down, not the reverse. Because everyone wants to feel cared for, valued, and appreciated, and your customer experience is driven by your people, and you first have to take care of your people, build meaningful connections with them, try to learn more about them, interact with them. Like there's nothing all or nothing, right? There's no personal life and there's no professional life, it's all mixed together. Like it's it's a fallacy to think, oh, this is just professional life. And because what I have going on in my personal life impacts how I do my job at work, and vice versa. So there's no separation between the two. And I think it's it's hard time leaders understand and accepted that responsibility. That sometimes you're going to have to coach them, like outside of work, right? You have to take care of the whole person, not just what they need to be successful in their roles. You have to do that too. But say the employee needs help trying to get a loan to buy their first home. If you can help, you help them, right? Get them um the right expert to maybe guide them through the process. Because the smoother that process goes, or whatever it is that they are dealing with, the the more successful your company will be when you take care of the whole person. Yeah, financially, their fitness, their faith. I mean, everything that makes the person a person, you have to think about taking care of the whole person. Because the culture you want, it starts with you and they are looking at you. And the interesting aspect of this same study with the Bay and company is that it showed us the way that leaders and supervisors lead that charge. And it was important to mention this because oftentimes in a bigger uh institution where they have an HR function, they'll say, Well, that is an HR's position. No, HR's role is to advocate policy. HR cannot build relationships with your direct report. It's the responsibility of your leaders and managers to have the tools they need to build meaningful relationships with their direct report. And so I guess the next question is does your leaders and supervisors have what it takes to lead in a service mindset?

SPEAKER_01: 35:14

And by example, I have a client we worked with where the business owner kept blowing up because his customer service people weren't following a certain protocol that he wanted. In other words, they were kind of answering the client short, not getting out of their chair to you know, uh acknowledge somebody came into the counter sales area. And so I did a quick review with his salespeople, the customer service people, and asked them why. And they're like, honestly, I just forget. And I said, Why is that? And they said, Because every time the owner talks to a customer that walks in the door, that's what he does. He just sits there in his chair, he's telling us to get, and I so I just follow his lead because I he said, I I want to I want to do it right, but I forget because that's how he talks to customers, so that you got to make it up. What's that? I say you kind of make it up. Oh funny, that's a great example, absolutely, and it just blew my mind, and it blew his mind too. I said, Well, I said, you know, you can't yell at them anymore. So yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 36:24

So uh we got one more to go. Yeah. Um, the fifth mystic is us thinking that customer service is a department, just a big one. Um, or just send it to customer service, you know. Just just send it to customer service. And um earlier I I was telling you about my story and how I started in the dry cleaning industry. And when I got there, I I didn't understand their processes and their systems. Like I had to mark in the clothes, I had to make sure that it was marked in properly, like it's uh Louis Vuitton, it's a brown skirt, it has tags or it's tone. Like you have to mark it in properly in case whatever happens, like we want history of the government. And I'm a very analytical person and logical person, so it's like, man, this doesn't make sense. And top of that, I had still had to make my number, so there was a certain number I had to make every hour. So as a new guy, I'm I'm trying to keep up, right? And so sometimes I'll cut corners, and I didn't understand this concept that everyone has a customer. I did not understand that until when I had the opportunity to become a manager in that same company, they asked me to now go deliver clothes. Like we had a route system, so it we it's a free pickup and delivery. So the driver uh drove because he knew the route, but I had to physically take the clothes and hang them at the door and give them to the customer. And on one of those trips, we delivered clothes to a customer who had no clothes that week. So, of course, the customer calls and says, Hey, you guys deliver something, this is not mine. We checked in the system, she was right. She didn't we didn't we didn't pick up anything from her and uh the week before. So, of course, you know what this does, it opens a Pandora's box because now the customer is thinking, wow, if they did this, maybe they've done this to me. Like which of my clothes have they delivered to someone else? What if the person is not good as me and they never returned it? So they begin to go in their closet trying to figure out what they are missing, and there's nothing there. But that moment taught me the importance of why working together is critical in the customer experience. Because in that moment I understood that my customer was a driver, I had to make sure that he had what he needed to deliver that great experience, and everyone that touches the process touches the customer. So I might not be working with the customer directly, but I have to serve and help someone who is because any mistake that happens at the front line, whether it's at the counter if they come in, or in this instance with a driver as he delivers it, it's a whole reflection of the entire company, not just the driver. A customer looks at the company, and so everyone is responsible and accountable for the experience. Customer service is not a department, it's an identity. It's either you have it or not. Brands that we've talked about, looked at what great brand, what brand comes to mind when you think of great service, right? Like it's part of the identity, it's why we trust them. And I understood this very well when I went to uh Disney and went to Magic Kingdom, went underground and studied and like learned how they were applying these same principles. And if you ever been to Disney, when you come back from Disney, within the first 48 to 72 hours, you have the Disney hangover. Because at Disney, everyone is trained, regardless of their role, regardless of their department, it doesn't matter whether they are in housekeeping, the bar shuttle driver, everyone understands their role and the importance of their role that they are there to serve you because they know they play a significant role in the experience. And so when you come back from Disney, you are like, wait, what's going on? Everyone you interact with is not Disney, they are not as quick to help you, they are not as kind, they are not as pleasant, like they don't make you feel like you are the only one in the room, right? And that's the difference. That companies like Disney or the or the top brands that you or what brand comes to mind for you is they understand that customer experience is not a department, it's an identity, and everyone plays a significant role in that. Again, another example of that is as a consumer, right? Amazon came and changed the game for everyone. And when Amazon was doing free delivery and they they brought it down to 24 hours, like you, we can get it to you in a day. These days, you don't even need 24 hours, right? Everyone is like, man, they are mad, they are crazy. How are they going to do it? Right? It was new, but when they did it, now as a consumer, when you order something and there's no one-day delivery, you are like, wait, what? Amazon doesn't why why can't you do it? Yeah, that's true. So that's the point. And this also leads to a greater point. Who is your competition at the end of the day? Because your competition is not the next adjacent company within your industry. Your competition is whomever your customers interact with. Your competition is an Amazons, your competition is a Chick-fil-A's, your competition is a Disney's.

SPEAKER_01: 44:06

Are there any specific industries better than others?

SPEAKER_00: 44:10

No, so far, I mean, we've been able to do this across industries, uh, higher education, uh, medical, nonprofit, churches, restaurants, uh, massage and spa, um, insurance agencies. So uh the the principles work, the these are all principles based and and and the process works. And so uh our work has been with teams with five to all the way up to 500, right? So um when you talk about small business according to the IRS, I think it goes up to like 250 million a year, whatever, right? So it's it's it's a big range. And uh, I mean, so far your company, your business as customers, I think this will work for you too. This will work for you too.

SPEAKER_01: 45:00

Absolutely. Well, Francis, I appreciate your time and your insights today, and I wish you continued success. Thank you, Michael. Thank you for listening to Small Business Pivots. This podcast is created and produced by my company, Boss. Our business is growing yours. Boss offers flexible business loans with business coaching support. Apply in minutes and get approved and funded in as little as 24 to 48 hours at business ownership simplified.com. If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the subscribe button and share it as well. If you need help growing your business, email me at Michael at michaeldmorson.com. We'll see you next time on Small Business Pivots.