Podcast Growth, SEO & Monetization Tips for Small Business Owners | Molly Ruland of Heartcast Media

In this episode of Small Business Pivots, host Michael D. Morrison talks with Molly Ruland, Founder & CEO of Heartcast Media, a Washington D.C.–based full-service podcast production agency now operating from Costa Rica.

Molly shares how small business owners can start, grow, and monetize a podcast the right way — focusing on SEO (Search Engine Optimization), AEO (Answer Engine Optimization), and genuine relationship-driven content instead of chasing downloads.

💡 You’ll learn:
 • How to build a podcast that fills your pipeline and creates real connections
 • Why SEO and AEO matter more than virality in 2025 and beyond
 • How to use long-tail keywords, show notes, and transcripts to get found
 • Outsourcing tips that save time and maximize impact
 • Monetization strategies that go beyond ads and downloads
 • Creative ways to pitch yourself as a guest (think Loom videos + relationship building)

🌍 Molly’s Story: From Washington D.C. to Costa Rica, she built a global agency helping brands and creators launch powerful podcasts without burnout or vanity metrics.

Molly Ruland: Founder & CEO of Heartcast Media

Website: https://www.heartcastmedia.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heartcastmedia/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HeartcastMedia/videos

#SmallBusinessPivots #MichaelDMorrison #BOSS #BusinessOwnershipSimplified #OurBusinessIsHelpingYoursGrow #PodcastGrowth #PodcastSEO #AEOStrategy #HeartcastMedia #MollyRuland #PodcastProduction #PodcastStrategy #PodcastMonetization #PodcastTips #SmallBusinessMarketing #BusinessPodcast #EntrepreneurPodcast #BusinessGrowth #ContentMarketing #DigitalMarketing #RelationshipMarketing #AuthenticContent #SmallBusinessOwner #OklahomaCity #WashingtonDC #CostaRica #Entrepreneurship #BusinessCoaching #OnlineBusinessGrowth #MarketingStrategy #BuildYourEmpire 

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Molly and Heartcast Media
• 3:40 From DC Studios to Virtual Agency
• 6:55 The Real Why of Podcasting
• 11:20 Guest Strategy Over Audience Chasing
• 15:35 Avoid Burnout: Outsource Smartly
• 19:50 What Makes a Good Podcast
• 23:10 Cadence, Seasons, and Business Goals
• 26:30 Downloads Myths and What Matters
• 30:20 SEO > Social: Optimize Everything
• 35:00 Monetization Beyond Ads
• 38:20 Pitching That Actually Works
• 42:00 Booking Services, Pricing, and ROI

Transcript

Host: 0:00

All right. Welcome to another Small Business Pivots. Today we have another special guest from around the world. And as you know, if you've listened or watched the podcast, you know that I feel like the business owner is the only one that can say their name and their business like the business owner. So I let you have the stage real quick to introduce yourself, where you're coming to us from, and just a little bit about you.

Guest: 0:22

Right on. Well, my name is Molly Ruland. I am the CEO and founder of Heartcast Media, which is a full service podcast production agency. We focus on podcast production, podcast booking, and podcast growth. And we also build websites because uh it's like candy in the checkout aisle. You know, no matter how good your website is, you're gonna need a new one before you know it. So um I'm based in Costa Rica, but the business is based in Washington, D.C. I moved here in the pandemic, uh, converted my very brick and mortar business into a virtual one, and decided that I would uh take advantage of uh working remotely. And I moved to Costa Rica and I'm still here.

Host: 1:01

So and for those if you're only listening, go watch it on YouTube so you can see the beautiful scenery behind her, and then you'll know why she moved there. So we're gonna introduce the uh podcast real quick and we'll be right back. Welcome to Small Business Pivots, a podcast produced for small business owners. I'm your host, Michael Morrison, founder and CEO of Boss, where we make business ownership simplified for success. Our business is helping yours grow. Boss offers business loans with business coaching support. Apply in minutes and get approved and funded in as little as 24 to 48 hours at business ownership simplified.com. All right, welcome back to Small Business Pivots. So, podcast is a big, big thing. I know that we have a lot of listeners. Some of them have a podcast, some of them started one and quit, uh, others haven't started one. So let's just dive right in. But first, I know our listeners like to know just a little bit of background about the person they're listening to. So you got any good stories of your upbringing of how you got to where you are today.

Guest: 2:17

I blame it on the Irish. Uh, I I grew up in a very Irish household. I grew up uh listening to, you know, Irish dancing and playing Irish uh musical instruments. I could play the concertina uh as a child. I danced at the White House for Ronald Reagan a few times when I was a child. Uh and yeah, grew up in a very Irish family. We're all about, you know, bootlegging, bartending, entertaining, music, dancing, and all that good stuff. So uh it was kind of in my blood. So I've owned a multimedia company for the last 25 years, uh, and I've always just been a connector. So prior to forming Heartcast Media seven years ago, uh, I was based in DC and owned a company that was primarily focused on building community through art, music, and culture. Uh so I managed 160 artists, I built recording studios, podcast studios, uh, recorded bands, was live streaming everybody in 2016 when nobody was home. Uh and uh yeah, cut my teeth on a lot of things, but formed Heartcast Media in 2018, uh, just because I I grew a little bit and wanted to work with different people and wanted to take the skills that I learned from doing everything with no money, no support, uh, and sometimes illegally, uh, you know, to get the job done and then moving into the business world and just recognizing, you know, you you see these young kids make masterpieces with iPhones and no money, and then you go in the business world and you're like, you paid $15,000 for that video. It's the worst thing I've ever seen. Like, who did that? And you're like, Ted from IT. Like, of course he did. Why is Ted from IT making your brand videos? You know what I mean? Like, there's a problem. And so I came into it like this idea that you could make sustainable and good content that was attractive and appealing, but it was also effective, and it doesn't have to cost a million dollars. And there's a middle ground there, which most business owners fall into where you need good content, but you're not spending 10 grand a video.

Host: 4:06

Absolutely. Well, let's uh get right into podcasts because it's a hot topic. I know there's a lot of differences of opinions. Is it dead? Is it still popular? Why do so many hit it big and not? So, where do you think kind of the the basics of starting with a podcast for our listeners? Where do you think we could start with?

Guest: 4:28

I mean, to me, everything is about relationships and like having a podcast will really enrich your life. And I know you can relate to that. Like, I'm sure you've done some interviews where you're like, that was awesome. Like, I really like that guy or that lady, or you've done business with them, or you just felt heard or seen or validated. And I think that the world needs a lot more of that relationship building right now, um, and longer form conversations, I think is really imperative for like our society as a whole, to be honest. Um, and I just think that there's something really amazing about the democratization of information. Like, I've always been kind of obsessed with pirate radio and those things. And the fact that like you can just plug in the microphone and say what you want to say and publish it on Substack and get in front of thousands of people for free is really fascinating, right? And especially at a time when free speech uh ain't so free no more. You know what I mean? Uh, you know, it it matters more than ever to have this medium where we can like actually share thoughts and feelings and everything else. From a business perspective, I think it's an excellent way to fill your pipeline, but you have to be really intentional and strategic about who you're interviewing and why. And I think a lot of people have it wrong where it's all about the audience and you know, go on other people's podcasts and tap into their audience. It's like, no, man, I'm going on your podcast. I'm not, I hope your audience likes what I have to say and I provide value, right? But I'm here for you. I'm here to hang out with you today and to have a conversation with you. And I'm sure that I will see you again. Maybe I'll see you at a convention, maybe I'll invite you to, you know what I mean? Like it's the beginning of a relationship. And then if your audience feels that, then they're gonna enjoy our conversation more. But to me, it's about you, it's not about tapping into your audience. That feels gross, to be honest. You know what I mean?

Host: 6:13

Like that's not it. I I love what you just said because no one else has ever said that. And when I'm asked what's my favorite part about the podcast, is I get to meet people that I would have never met if I had just sent a cold email, made a cold call. They say yes almost every time to be on the podcast and have a conversation. And I do continue the relationship FYI with those that I have on the podcast, so that's uh very powerful, as well as I feel like I'm getting kind of a mastermind. So, like we have mastermind groups, you know. I'm like, I'm learning from people all around the world that are 10x more than me, more than I might ever be getting insights, and so I just think that's super cool. So, where would you like to start with the podcast? Because your company does a lot of things. So, do you want to kind of focus on your company and how it helps people, or do you just want to talk podcast in general?

Guest: 7:07

Well, I mean you know, I would always love for people to hire me, but I think this information could be valuable for everybody. But I I think it starts with strategy with your why, right? And I I'm not a big fan of Simon Sinek or whatever his name is, but you got to start with your why. Why do you want to have a podcast? What where is the goalpost? Because you can't kick the ball down the field if you don't even know where the goalpost is. So let's start there, right? So is it to get brand visibility? Well, you got to put some money behind those episodes because as you know, you could put your heart and soul into something and get seven downloads on it if you're lucky, right? So, like it's not just automatic visibility, you get more visibility doing a TikTok. So that's not the right answer, right? Or the whole answer. Um, if you're doing it for your business, that's one thing. If you're doing it for personal, that's another, right? So I think it's like starting with that, and then who's gonna do the podcast and what does success look like? And then who are you interviewing? Well, there's you know, some people on LinkedIn with lots of followers. Well, what does that have to do with your business, right? Or I want to do a podcast about resilience. Okay, what does that have to do with plumbing? You know what I mean? What how does that relate, right? Like, uh, you know, let's really get into are you trying to please an audience that doesn't exist that might never hire you? Are you trying to create a podcast that is what people want in a podcast, or are you gonna create a podcast that you can be passionate about? And I think the answer should always be passionate about it. And it could be in a very like vanilla way. So, for example, I have a podcast, camp content. I turn people into camp counselors and cartoons, and we talk about content marketing. I only interview CMOs and fractional CMOs. Why? Because they understand marketing, we're gonna have a good conversation, they tend to have a better sense of humor, and they have clients. And fractional CMOs usually have multiple clients. And the best way to show people how you work is to show them how you work. So they get invited on my podcast. It's you know, a funny one-liner, cold email. They're like, Okay, I see what you're doing here, but I'm in. They they go through the process, it's really simple. They come on the show, I do this great introduction, right? By the end, they're like, by the way, I checked out your raids and services. I think I have two clients for you every single time, right? But part of the reason is because we spend 20 minutes talking about content marketing, which I know it very well. I've been doing it for 25 years. I'm not faking the funk talking about resilience because I don't really care about resilience. Okay, it's resilient to get out of bed every day at this point. You know what I mean? We're all there, right? Like I need, I you know what I mean, and that's not gonna move the needle because I don't own a business that does anything about resilience. I own a business that produces content. So I want to talk about content, you know? And so I think it's like, you know, finding like something you can get into, but also making sure that it can fill your pipeline or that you're talking to people that are aggregators. So, like um, if you do, if you're, you know, sell insurance, then talk to somebody who has a newsletter, a substack about insurance. Talk to people that can get you one to many kind of thing. And then sometimes, yeah, you interview your buddy, or sometimes you interview somebody with a big following on LinkedIn. But at the end of the day, I feel like episodes should be considered warm leads, but not in like a douchey way where I'm gonna hit you with a sales proposal afterwards. No, I just want to talk to people in my industry that relate to me, that have a sense of humor and potentially have clients that they might refer to me one day, right? I get content out of it, I build new relationships, and I'm having a good time because CMOs are typically sarcastic and jaded.

Host: 10:30

Well, having a good time is important because it can be daunting and uh with all the editing and scheduling and all that cool stuff. So it's like that's the I have not got burnt out yet. For those that are listening, we're at about I think this is about a hundred hundred and twenty-fifth episode, uh recording-wise, and and I'm still having fun, which is which is awesome. Yeah, I know people that started and did three and they're done. They're like, that was too much work. It was I'm like, well, then you were probably doing it for the wrong reason.

Guest: 11:02

Well, you're doing it for the wrong reason, and then the second thing I always say is outsource, you know what I mean? Because like, don't be so hard on yourself. Like, you can't, you know, people go to school to be an audio engineer. Like, I know in this world of AI, they're like, put it in there and AI will edit everything. All right, okay, but it's not gonna be good. There's a reason why MPR spends $60,000 an episode, that's why they win all the awards, right? There's a middle ground there, and so to expect yourself to be good at audio engineering, video editing, copywriting, you know what I mean? Like it's it's a lot. And so I always say, outsource it and do all that, give the busy work to somebody else so that you can focus on who you're interviewing and then the follow-up. Because too many people are like, okay, next episode, next episode, and then they don't even email and say, Tom, thanks for coming on the show last week. I really enjoyed my time. By the way, would you mind making that introduction? Can I get 20 minutes for a meeting? Would you join my board of directors? Would you make a donation? Whatever it is that you're doing, but nobody ever does that. No one ever does that. And they're just like on to the next, right? Which is a societal issue that we're having. More, more, more volume, go viral. Listen, you don't want to go viral, man. It sucks. Going viral is the worst thing that could happen to you, right? It's not what people think it is. So it's like focus on the relationship. And what I see is people getting really bogged down and the admin of it, the show notes, you know, especially in internally in companies, because it's like those are different departments. So now this project has to go over here, and then now it's got to go to this other department, and now it's got to go to another department. And the episode is four and a half weeks old, and now your marketing team that you're paying 100K a year, just spent doing something that you could have paid somebody a few bucks to do, and you've missed, you know what I mean? And now you're not hit, you know what I mean? You you're you're jumping the shark, you're missing the point. Outsource, have that done really well, and then focus on nurturing that relationship, following up with them. You know what I mean? Focus on the content, asking good questions, focus on the things that matter and not on the minutiae of it, right? Like you do you do your own oil changes, you're gonna file your taxes this year, you're gonna play the violin at the company reception later. Like, you know, take it easy, killer. Like, leave something for the rest of us and focus on what you're good at, especially in a company. You know, don't saddle your marketing team to do stuff that they don't do. That's not fair, you know?

Host: 13:24

Yeah. What does your what does your company do? So I see you do a lot of things, but how can you help those businesses?

Guest: 13:32

Well, we do everything, we do all that stuff for you. We create it, we create a custom trello board, we design your logo, we create the whole project, we design all your assets, all your templates, we do outreach for you, we'll line up the guests for you on LinkedIn, we'll grow your LinkedIn profile, we'll do the guest prep, we'll edit everything, we'll engineer, we'll be there on the recording, and then we'll clean everything up and take out care of everything, show notes, YouTube. I mean, literally everything you could think of. You know, in a guest graphic, episode graphic, quote graphic, YouTube graphic, blog posts on your website. Everything is done for you, and it's done in five business days. So that way you can just focus on who you're interviewing and then how to really show up there and get it done. And it's not that expensive. We charge $650 an episode to do all that. Eight people are working on your episodes, right? But now you've got five different graphics you can share. You've got a blog post, you've got metadata you could turn into a newsletter on LinkedIn, you've got opportunities to tag that guest on LinkedIn in multiple locations. You have an opportunity to email that guest and say, thanks for coming on the show. Here's a folder full of assets. Thanks for coming on the show. I'm gonna tag you on LinkedIn, right? It gives you it fills your content calendar, it should fill your pipeline, it should do all of those things, right? And then you can focus on what is the best way to use these graphics instead of focusing on who's gonna make the graphics, right? Yeah, and so it's kind of a shift, but that only works if you're going into it like who am I interviewing? Because if you're just interviewing popular people on LinkedIn, you're not gonna get any ROI out of that. But if you're interviewing people that are adjacent to your business, then they're going to instinctively want to help you when the thing is over, right? Like they're gonna say, Man, this is so much fun. I really enjoyed hanging out with you, Michael. You thank you so much for all the love you gave hardcast media. How can I help you? What kind of clients are you looking to coach? I'm instinctively wanting to do that because you have a warm personality, you're showing so much love to my business. Of course I'm gonna want to help you out, right? You know, so I think people need to be way more intentional about that. And like, don't worry about downloads, don't worry about the algorithm, don't worry about any of that. The only person that matters is the person across from the table. Period. And when that person matters, then the content is good.

Host: 15:39

Speaking of content, what makes a good podcast? Like, I because we do have a lot of listeners that's never done a podcast, and they're like, I can never get in front of a video, I don't know what questions to ask. And of course, there's all kinds of courses, there's all kinds of YouTube's, and they all say something differently. So, in your opinion, what what makes a good podcast? Do they have to pre-write the questions, share that with the other guest? I mean, what's what what makes it good?

Guest: 16:04

Yes and no. I think being prepared is is important, but when you prepare too many questions, you get pigeonholed in that, and then you're so focused on when the person's gonna stop talking so you can ask the question and you forget to listen and then just roll with it. So I would say the most important thing is a good introduction or like making people feel welcome, right? That is like starting off good helps, right? Like bringing people's barrier down helps, and then just be yourself, be 100 your percent yourself unapologetically all the time. I'm a ridiculous person, right? My backup plan is stand-up comedy. I know that I'm not for everybody, and I'm totally cool with that. Took a long time to bake this cake, and I'm not gonna pretend I'm somebody else when I'm on an episode. You know what I mean? And I think people find that endearing and they appreciate it. And sometimes I say the things that people wish they could say, but they work for corporate America, so they just enjoy being around it and not getting into trouble for it, right? So just be authentic, but talk about something you actually care about because that's gonna shine through when you when you know, we've all listened to podcast episodes, and you're like, oh god, this is painful. That guy just paid to be on the show or something because the host isn't into it, he's going through the motions, he's clearly not prepared, right? You can feel all those things, but like somebody listening to this episode is gonna be like, Man, she's a firecracker. This is a great like conversation is going, we're bopping back and forth, there's no lull here. Like, we're clearly interested in our topic. I think that's good content, right?

Host: 17:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, you promised you would keep this PG, I think. So now I didn't know what that meant up front, but now I do.

Guest: 17:43

Yeah, just less cursing. That's all. I was gonna come from a long line of sailors and bartenders and bootleggers. It's in my DNA to curse. So uh, but I I I reel it in on other people's podcasts.

Host: 17:54

Well, so I kind of look at podcasting when I know when I first started, which was I'm still pretty young at this three years ago, maybe. I think we started three and a half years, maybe. But I know I was like, how many, how many should I do? How often? I mean, what are some tips like that that can really help somebody? Because I'm a big believer in, like you said, have a reason why you're doing it, know your purpose, know your why, have all that figured out. So, what are some good tips for somebody to be thinking about up front?

Guest: 18:23

Well, I think that you should only do something when you have something of value to add, right? Like I have a LinkedIn newsletter, I only write in it when I actually have something to say. And if I don't, then I'm not putting something out for the sake of putting it out because some to person told me I have to do it every two weeks. Nobody wants to read something that doesn't have any heart in it. So maybe it'll be two months before my next one. Maybe it'll be next Tuesday. No one knows, and that's what it is, right? And I think that my newsletter subscribers appreciate that about me because they don't just they're I'm not training them to delete my content every Tuesday morning at 11 or whatever, right? Yeah. Um, with podcasts, if you're doing it for your business, look at it as warm leads and crank through those. Do 12 episodes in two months, so then release them however you want. But like, you don't want one warm lead a month, do you? I want six this month and six next month, and I want to nurture the hell out of those and fill my pipeline and go on hey, this was my podcast and nurture those leads and get them in my funnel somehow, right? And then when things slow down again, do another season. That's how I look at having a podcast to fill your pipeline. If you want to be a podcaster, that is totally different. That means you got to be doing weekly episodes at a certain time, you need to be paying for marketing, you need to be putting money behind it. Like none of that is organic. So you have to decide if you want to be a podcaster or if you're trying to fill your pipeline because they're two different things.

Host: 19:49

Yeah. Well, that brings up the next question. On the most of the forums or the groups on Facebook that have anything to do with podcasting, I would say most of the questions asked are how do I grow my podcast? In other words, I'm only getting you know 20 downloads for every episode, and somebody will always chime, well, I just got 20,000 on mine. And what how does what's the difference between all these downloads and why does it matter? You're well, honesty, let's start there.

Guest: 20:21

That dude was lying, okay, because ain't nobody ain't nobody getting 20k downloads on an episode and hanging out in Facebook groups for podcasting. Period. Period. Because the seventh circle of hell is Facebook groups about podcasting. Okay, it's like literally the worst place. It's a lot of really nice people and a lot of really angry men who are wildly wrong about things and jerks about it. I'm like, listen, you can either be wrong or a jerk, but you don't get to be both, okay? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like these guys, and you're like, dude, things have changed in the last 40 years, like angry sound man, like reel it in a little bit, you know what I mean? Um, and so I would say, like, don't compare yourself to other people is the number one thing, right? Also, like understanding like the depth, right? Like, you're like, oh, I only have 50 downloads. If you had 50 people waiting to hear you speak in a room, you'd be nervous as hell, okay? Like, don't underestimate. Like, we live in this society where if it's not like super big numbers and a million that you you don't want that. That's not realistic. And if you get what I think it's like if you get 100 downloads in your podcast in the first seven days, you're in the top like 20% of podcasts. So like you have to understand the metrics, okay? So a lot of those people are lying, and then the other thing is like it either takes a really long time, right? Because I and I'm sure you can attest to that. I'm sure you have crickets on some of your episodes, but then sometimes as you grow, people are listening to old episodes too, right? So it just takes some time, but if you really want to grow your numbers, it honestly takes pain advertising. Like, none of these people with big downloads are doing that organically. Like, don't be fooled by that. Like, there's a lot of money going into those campaigns, those billboards for podcasts cost money, right? Like, none of those people are getting organic downloads, except for Joe Rogan, because he's been doing it forever, right? He, but that's not that's he you just take him out of the experiment. That is not normal, okay? Everybody else is paying, it's all pay to play. And so, like, if you're getting any traction at all, then you're doing really well, right? But you have to consider like what is well, you know, a hundred downloads on an episode in the first seven days is solid. It, I mean, it doesn't seem like it, but it is solid. That is way different than boosted up vanity metrics with impressions and this on social. But what does it really mean? And then the other question I would ask is why do you want more downloads? What does that more downloads represent to you? Is it because you want people to sign up for your funnel to go into coaching more? Is it because you want more, like, why do you want more downloads, right? To me, with camp content, I never even checked the downloads. I didn't care because I wasn't getting business from the downloads. I was getting business from the people I was interviewing, so I never even bothered to look at the downloads because that wasn't the metric. The metric was where they're calling me and setting up discovery calls and referring me to their clients. That had nothing to do with my downloads, right? It's like they it's like a fitness coach will tell you don't get on the scale every day. It's kind of the same, it's your phone ringing, you know what I mean?

Host: 23:18

Yeah, yeah. Would you say that when people are so we'll say all that stuff is bunk, but to grow organically, would you say it might be equal or it might be one or more or the other, but would you say optimization of all the description, all that is as important as the promotion, vice versa, which is kind of how can you organically grow quicker?

Guest: 23:43

I I would say it's more important, and I'm so glad you asked me that question because I think SEO is one thing that's not talked about enough in podcasting, and like everything in life is SEO. If you really want to improve your business, it's SEO.

Host: 23:55

Marketing is You're listening to Small Business Pivots. This podcast is produced by my company, Boss. Our business is helping yours grow. Boss offers business loans with business coaching support. Apply in minutes and get approved and funded in as little as twenty four to forty-eight hours at business ownership simplified.com. If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the subscribe button and share it as well. Now let's get back to our special guest. How can you organically grow quicker?

Guest: 24:29

I I would say it's more important, and I'm so glad you asked me that question because I think SEO is one thing that's not talked about enough in podcasting, and like everything in life is SEO. If you really want to improve your business, it's SEO. Marketing is like pissing into the wind, honestly, in a lot of cases, right? So I think SEO is where it's at. So SEO optimizing your show notes, your key takeaways, your timestamps, using long tail keywords. You know, like when we use our AI, I'm like, no, do not use a single adjective. I only want long tail keywords. So don't say we're gonna have a we're gonna deep dive and delve into this fabulous conversation with this magnificent person. No, we're talking about digital transformation in the age of AI with this financial expert. Like, I don't don't give me any fluff. Everything should be SEO keyword optimized, right? And with AI, you can do that. You can say, hey, um, you can ask them a series of questions before they come on your podcast. What's your greatest personal achievement? Your bio, what's your greatest professional achievement? Um, what are you the most proud of? You know, whatever. You can ask them a bunch of questions, right? And then you can throw that into AI and you can say, now optimize this, or you can take the transcription and you can say optimize this for these five keywords and write the description that way. And then you can take that and put that as a blog post on your website. And so now when people are searching digital transformation and fintech, you know, yours is gonna come up, which is gonna be way more valuable than you posting on social media, to be honest, right? I got 60,000 followers on my combined social media accounts. They are 100% limiting women's voices on LinkedIn. I have 6,000 followers on there. I'll post something, I'll get 12 impressions. Comment on a man's post, I get thousands, right? The whole system is rigged against us. So I think social media is kind of a waste of time, to be honest, which is crazy as a marketing person, you know, to say that. But in the last year, I've really just figured out that like SEO, AEO, and GEO. Search engine optimization, answer engine optimization, and I can't remember what the G is. I just learned it like 10 minutes ago in a company meeting. So I'll get back to you know, but like the world is changing. Like, you know how when you Google something and it gives you the AI answer. Well, now we gotta we gotta optimize things for answer engines. So that's that's what you should be telling your GPT hey, take this transcription and optimize it for AEO. Now take this transcription and optimize it for this. But yes, 100%. Because when people are Googling those words, you want to come up. That's how people really find you. All my business is inbound. I get two, three discovery calls a week for podcast booking because people Google podcast booking and we come up and they come to our website and they like what they see and they book a meeting. I put out stuff to 16,000 people about podcast booking, I get nothing. I get absolutely nothing because seven people saw it.

Host: 27:13

Yeah. People talk a lot about monetizing their podcast. What does that really mean in the podcast world? Because I think most people are just thinking like Joe Rogan makes a comfortable living doing his podcast. I don't know if that's what people are thinking about or if they're thinking about ads. I think about it as generating leads, but what is your opinion on that?

Guest: 27:36

Well, it's all about like collateral benefits, right? Like, which is really a banking term, but I think it relates. Monetization comes in many forms. And maybe it means you were asked to speak on a panel because somebody heard you on a podcast. Maybe it means um your phone is ringing. Maybe it means, like, for example, I did an interview with a guy on my podcast and he hit me up and he's doing a podcast for Accenture about automation and designing um whatever, huge uh engines to build stuff, you know, uh workflows. And and he wants me to be the host, right? Which is hilarious because I was so irreverent on my podcast. I'm like, you guys want me to be an engineering podcast host? I'm like, you know what you're getting into, but I'm strangely very interested in engineering and manufacturing and those things too. So I'm like kind of into it, right? Because they build like supply chains. So I'm like, I would totally do that. But that's an opportunity that came to me, and that's Accenture. That's a nice little gig. That's a few bucks in my pocket next year to do something I really enjoy doing, and that came from that podcast. So when you're looking at monetization, you have to look at it from a lot of different angles. And I think people think, download one dollar down, you know, like it's not that linear, man. It it's gonna come in all kinds of other ways, you know. And sometimes you do get lucky. Like I was on the sales gravy podcast and it went live last week, and I've gotten like three or four calls from that, which is like that never happens, right? But like that's super cool. That's a win, right? That's that's totally a win, you know, as far as I'm gonna that's monetization right there. And maybe it's not direct, but like one day that I'll get a referral from that, or maybe it'll happen right away. But I think it's not so cause and effect. I think it's like you have to really step back and go, well, wait, why was I asked to be on that panel? Why was I approached to do that keynote thing? Why was I asked to be on the board of directors? Well, maybe because they heard you talking somewhere.

Host: 29:28

Yeah. I know that it's easier to well, let me back up. I know that more people reach out to us to be on our show, and it's harder to get on other people's shows because they're getting inundated with so many requests as well. How can one break through that ice? Have you got any tips there?

Guest: 29:48

Well, 100% relationships, but I'm a I'm a big fan of the Loom. Are you familiar with Loom videos? Oh, yes. Okay, so it's a little psychological hack. If you open up somebody Else's website and you record a loom with their website as the screenshot, they're gonna hit play. So if you really wanna like cut through the noise, make a 30-second pitch for every podcast you're going on. Hey Tom, don't delete this. I'm a real person didn't make this with AI. I'm putting my hat in a ring. I know you're inundated with these all day, but I promise I won't suck. And here's three reasons why I'd be a great guest. Listen, that's a little effort in that, but I guarantee you they're gonna watch it and you're gonna be notified if they've watched it and they're gonna go, oh my god, I get so many crappy pitches all day. Thank you so much. This actually made me laugh, and you're gonna stand out from the noise. That's a great way to like do it yourself for very for zero dollars. The other thing I would say is hire somebody. You know, like there's a reason why artists have booking agents. We get you more, we get you on better stuff, you know what I mean? We get you paid, you know, like we we have more relationships, right? Because I can call and say, hey, Tom, I got another one for you, versus your pitch is gonna go into the pile with the other 99 they got that day, you know, for the thing. So if you can't afford to hire somebody, the loom is a great one.

Host: 31:09

That's awesome.

Guest: 31:09

And then like I said, you put their website on it because aren't wouldn't you? If you like saw a loom video and it was your website, of course you're gonna hit play, right? And then you could be like, aha, I got you. And then they'll be like, okay, that was act, that was actually clever. Now you stand out, you've built a relationship, you might get through. They might delete it too, but like that's a really low-cost way to like stand out from the madness.

Host: 31:32

And so, what does it look like? You said it was about 650 an episode at this time. Right now we're at Q3 2025. So, what does it look like to hire someone to get you on shows? What is that process?

Guest: 31:46

So it's kind of similar. We do an onboarding thing. I ask you a ton of questions. I build a very beautiful media kit for you with like 10 topics you're ready to cover, 10 questions you're ready to answer, potential episode topics, keywords, bio, and high quality pictures. And then we build a custom pitch and we build a custom list for you. So we take all these data points and we go and we say, All right, here's the first 40 podcasts we're gonna pitch you on, and here's our pitch. And then they say, Okay, and we just hit the ground running. So we have we have the big database that everybody else has. Nobody's unique in that we all have the same information, right? They'll tell you they have whatever, but it's a lie. So everybody can access that. Then we have our always a list, a yes list, and that's people we've already booked on podcasts, right? I suspect if I hit you up, Michael, and I was like, dude, I got the perfect guy for you, you're gonna be open for it because I know you now and I know who you want to talk to, and of course you're gonna listen to that more than somebody else, right? So that's our always a yes list. And then we've got our ready-to-be pitched because I do things a little differently. I reach out to people and I say, Are you open to pitches? I'm a podcast production company. I got a few in the top 10. It's not my main jam, but I got some solid people. Are you interested? And I get people and they say, Oh my god, thank you so much for asking, instead of just sending me slop. And like, this is actually the exact person we're looking for. And I go, fantastic. Don't have them right now, but when I do, I'll send them to you because I'm not gonna send you somebody. And they go, Thank you so much. You're awesome. Have a great day, right? Change the whole relationship right there. Now they're ready, they're looking out for my pitches, right? So every day, every week, we're just growing our always a yes and our ready-to-go list at every possible moment, and then just building our relationships, you know, with people. Because once you're in, you're in. So I spent 20 years putting people on stages. I booked people from Washington, D.C. on stages at South by Southwest, right? And it's what I did for a very, very long time. And so it was about two years ago that I was like, why am I not doing this in the podcast space? Because nobody's getting it wrong with these VAs and these AI pitches and pitching fintech people on life coach podcasts. And I'm like, what is you know, this is a mess, right? And I know you get a lot of those. You're like, why do you even want to do that every hour? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And so I was like, I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring and do this a little different. And you know, selfishly, I want to be like the go in five years. I want to be like, Oh, you better, if you want to get somebody on insert name, you gotta call Molly. I want to be like, you know, I do, and I'm gonna get there because it's all about relationships. But I'm also really invested. I go to podcast conventions, I speak at podcast conventions, I have podcasts, I have a podcast company, right? So if you're gonna hire somebody, I would start with somebody that's knowledgeable because PR companies are trying to get their nope. And I keep telling them, you stay out of PR, stay out of podcasting, and I'll stay out of PR, right? You stay on your side of the fence, I'll stay on mine. They're very, they're very similar, but totally different beasts. So, like, let's just work together instead of against each other. And then you got a bunch of tech bros who are building all these AI databases to get in, but that doesn't mean your pitch is gonna get through. It doesn't mean you have the right email. It doesn't, you know what I mean? These guys are just trying to make a quick book, the companies are gonna go under in two years, you know what I mean? That that's not it. Then you've got communities you can join, like pod matching stuff. And I love Alex San Filippo, he's like one of my favorite humans on the planet. And if you're brand new, it's a great place to start, but the it's not gonna have like thousands of listeners on those that you know, it's a good place to cut your teeth and kind of figure it out, but it's not those, those aren't gonna move the needle most of the time. You get a lot of no-shows, you get a lot of new podcasters on that. You know what I mean? So I would recommend hiring an agency. There, it runs the gamut. I had a meeting with somebody and he was like, people are telling me 10 grand a month. I'm like, I'm 1200 a month or 1900 a month, depending on how many podcasts you want to get booked on. I to I told I told the guy to me, podcast booking is the gateway drug to podcast production. If I can get you into my company and you realize what a great job we do on booking, then then you're gonna say, Well, what else can you do? Oh, you also do production. Oh, you also build websites, oh, you can also edit my webinars or my, you know what I mean? Like, oh, you can do testimonial videos for the company. Yep. And so that's how we just sort of bring people into the folds, right? So to me, I don't need to charge a lot of money. And we also base our services on the approvals and not on pitches, where other companies will say we'll send out a thousand pitches a month, but there's no guarantees, which is like I wish I if I could get paid on my efforts, I'd be a good billionaire, technically speaking.

Host: 36:10

You know, I hadn't heard of that one. I don't get paid that way.

Guest: 36:13

I know. I was like, what Kool-Aid does it now. Uh my clients want results. I don't know what clients they're talking to, but my clients want actual results if they're paying that much money to be on something, you know? So um it's less than producing your own episode, but then we also will make 10 vertical clips of your appearance once the episode goes live that you can use on your own social and you're not waiting for the host to send you those things. So there's built-in um content creation there. And then the last thing we do is we will run ads. So, like let's say you go on a podcast and you're really jazzed about it, and it was a great conversation. Well, we can run LinkedIn ads or Google ads, display ads on that episode and all the places where your potential um clients are hanging out, and we can boost the downloads for the host and boost visibility and give you all the analytic information and demographic information on who listened to your episode, and that can help you retarget your ads. So we're going at it like very, very strategically to make sure we don't waste anybody's time.

Host: 37:14

Is it better to I know you kind of touched on this earlier, like if you have a podcast, know your audience instead of just being on everyone else's. But I've noticed a trend, it seems like in the last six months to a year, where people that had podcasts are kind of shelving their pausing their podcast and to go be a guest on everybody else's. In other words, they're not sharing your podcast, they're just trying to be on so many podcasts, and then after the podcast is uploaded, they don't help you share it, all that good stuff. Are you kind of seeing that trend? And how can one overcome those obstacles? Because it is a lot of time when someone says, Oh, and we've got this big audience, we'll help you grow your show, and and then crickets.

Guest: 37:57

Well, and I think that's the thing, it's like this dog and pony show, right? It's like bait and switch. It's like you tap into other people's audiences, and it's it's just a it's a misnomer, you know what I mean? It's a misnomer. It's like, and and a lot of those people, they're probably not getting downloads on their show, so they're going on other people's show to like ramp up those downloads.

Host: 38:17

I love how you just cut to the chase. Because so many of us, we see all those 10x promises, and I got 30,000 downloads, and and you're just calling BS on all of it. So I I love that because it assures people like, don't listen to the noise. Find your why.

Guest: 38:36

Because like at the end of the day, right? Like, if you own a brick and mortar like ice cream shop, you need a lot of bodies coming through. But the vast majority of us, if we got one new client a month, it would impact your bottom line significantly, right? Yeah, so this idea that you gotta reach a million people is flawed. No, you do not. If if if you had a million listeners on this podcast and and 50 people wanted to hire me tomorrow, it would be a problem. I could not handle that. I am not what that I don't want that, okay? You know, I don't. I that would overwhelm my team. I wouldn't be able to good do a good job for anybody. Like that would put us at way capacity. Like this, you don't want what you think you want. You know, if I walk away from this conversation today and I gave some people some good information, right? Which I feel like we are providing value for your listeners, and me and you are friendly, that's a win for me. That's a that's a win, you know, because you never know where we might connect again, or I might send you somebody for coaching, or you might send me, you know, you just never know. And so I think it's like focus on small, focus on the relationship, and then don't have these big pie in the sky ideas about going viral and reaching lots of people. Like that's most of us would be very stressed out if that happened.

Host: 40:00

Yeah, well, and for those that have gone viral that I do know that comes with problems, depositions, lawsuits, everybody wants a piece of your fame. So uh I know we're almost out of time, and I know you know a lot more than what you've just shared in the 30, 40 minutes we've been together. So, how can someone follow you, engage with you, learn more, get with your company?

Guest: 40:25

Uh well, go to the website, it's heartcastmedia.com. And if you go to forward slash friends, because we're all friends now, you can see my meeting links and anything else you might need to know, my social media, all that kind of stuff. Um, I love talking about podcasting and I love strategy. So if anybody wants to call me up and just like pick my brain for a few minutes about some stuff, I'm happy to do that. I'm not really if you want to start a hobby podcast about cats, like I'm probably not the right person for that because I'm all about business development, filling your pipeline, strategy, intention. If that's where you're leaning, I'm always happy to talk to people and give them some ideas. Um, sometimes, you know, one of my favorite quotes is you can't read the label from inside the jar. And sometimes you just need somebody else to help you shuffle your ideas. And a lot of people are like, I want to do a podcast, but I just it's just not clicking. And a lot of times after a call with me, it clicks, and then they're ready to like make that next step because they're like just it's like okay, but how do these things all come together? So I love that stuff, you know what I mean? So hit me up.

Host: 41:33

You mentioned LinkedIn. Are you open to connections?

Guest: 41:36

Absolutely, but I like low-key, hate LinkedIn. I don't post there very often, so I don't expect much, you know.

Host: 41:43

It might be a little delay. Uh well, so I always end with a question, and that is if you're in a room full of business owners, different sizes, different industries, what is one thing that could be applicable to all of them? It could be a quote, a book, insight, a tip.

Guest: 42:02

In this year of uncertainty, in every single corner of the world that you look in, focus on relation relationships and authenticity because that's all that's gonna matter. And and really look at supply and demand this year, you know, because everything is gonna change, budgets are drying up, everything is changing. So stay true to yourself and follow the trends because all we got is each other. What worked last year ain't gonna work next year, you know.

Host: 42:31

That's right. Seems to be changing ever since the COVID, so uh just stay on top of it. But I love that. Be yourself.

Guest: 42:38

Be yourself because that's what that's what drives it, right? Like, you know, at the end of the day, if somebody's gonna spend some money with you, it's because they like you. We don't hire people that we don't like, you know. So be yourself because somebody's gonna like you, and you don't need everybody to like you. You need your the right clients to like you. You they want you to know that you're knowledgeable, but they also want to like you because then when they like you and you like your clients, then you want to see them win and you love your job and you get excited when you're like, oh, so-and-so just booked a catch-up call with me. I can't wait to see her on Thursday. Wildly different than like, oh shh, you know what I mean? Like, oh, you know, like start there. And so by being yourself, you're gonna attract the right people, and when you're not yourself, you're gonna attract people that you don't that you don't like, and you don't want clients that you don't like.

Host: 43:24

Uh, it makes for a miserable day for sure. Well, Molly, you've been a blessing to many and a wealth of information. I wish you continued success, and I look forward to keeping in touch with you.

Guest: 43:37

Likewise. Thank you so much for having me. It's a great way to spend an afternoon.

Host: 43:40

My pleasure. Thank you for listening to Small Business Pivots. This podcast is created and produced by my company, Boss. Our business is growing yours. Boss offers flexible business loans with business coaching support. Apply in minutes and get approved and funded in as little as twenty four to forty-eight hours at business ownership simplified.com. If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the subscribe button and share it as well. If you need help growing your business, email me at Michael at michaeldmors.com. We'll see you next time on Small Business Pivots.