Sales Made Simple: Mindset & Discovery Call Tips That Work | Stephen Steers

Ever wonder how mindset shifts can revolutionize your business? Get ready for an enlightening conversation with Stephen Steers, founder of Steers Consulting Group, as he recounts his extraordinary journey from flipping garage sale finds to managing big-time construction projects in New York City. Stephen's story takes a fascinating turn when he explains the pivotal moment that inspired his leap into entrepreneurship. Learn firsthand about the power of mindset in achieving your personal and professional aspirations and dive into Stephen's actionable tips for running more effective discovery calls and utilizing storytelling to supercharge your business operations.

Discover how a mentorship with Scott Sambucci became Stephen's gateway into the world of consulting, helping him align his passion for problem-solving with business growth. We dive into the critical role resilience played as Stephen faced the early challenges of the 2020 pandemic. His journey underscores the necessity of adaptability and the transformative power of seeking help when needed. Stephen doesn’t just share his triumphs but also opens up about confronting personal and business shortcomings, bringing valuable insights into the importance of continuous self-improvement.

Building a sales system that works is no small feat, and Stephen's expertise in this area is invaluable. This episode takes a hard look at the pitfalls of founder-led sales and the common mistakes businesses make when hiring salespeople. Stephen introduces us to his sales elevation roadmap and sales call review services, emphasizing the importance of documenting and refining sales methods before bringing new personnel on board. We delve into mastering sales conversations with a nine-step framework and the crucial role of humanized sales strategies. Learn how to personalize outreach efforts and maintain the human touch in an increasingly automated world, ensuring your business not only survives but thrives.

Stephen Steers: CEO / Steers Consulting

Website: https://www.stephensteers.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-steers/

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FREE Resources: https://www.stephensteers.com/podcast


Mentions:
Paulo Coelho: The Alchemist
Dean Jackson: 5 Star Prospecting

 #Mindset #Sales #EntrepreneurJourney #BusinessGrowth #SalesMastery #ResilienceInBusiness #StorytellingInSales #BusinessMindset #ConsultingSuccess #SalesStrategy #EntrepreneurMindset #SmallBusinessSuccess #BusinessPodcast #MarketingAdvice #BusinessPodcast #SmallBusinessPivots #SmallBusinessSuccess #Success #Podcast #SmallBusiness #BOSS #MichaelDMorrison #Oklahoma City

Chapters

• 0:00 Small Business Pivots
• 11:57 Pivoting Towards Consulting Success
• 15:10 Building Effective Sales Systems
• 22:29 Mastering Sales Conversations and Mindset
• 29:14 Emotional Sales Conversations Framework
• 42:23 Humanized Sales Strategies for Success

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

All right, welcome to another Small Business Pivots. Today we have a very special guest from around the world and I know no one can introduce themselves or their company like the owner. Tell us who you are, where you're from and what your company does.

Speaker 2: 0:13

Hey, great to be here with you today, michael, everybody. I'm Steven Steers. I'm the founder of the Steers Consulting Group and we are a sales consultancy and sales training company. We work with professional services companies, MSPs to help them grow and scale sales with the right to type of tutelage. A big piece of what we do is leverage storytelling, because stories close the sale. They never close the conversation.

Speaker 1: 0:38

Amen, amen. So, before we go to the intro of the podcast, how are we going to help our listeners? Today? There's a couple of different things. How are we?

Speaker 2: 0:45

going to help our listeners today. There's a couple of different things. Before we got onto the recording, everyone, michael and I were talking a little bit about mindset. I think that's probably the largest thing that keeps people where they are and helps them get to where they want to go. Once they change that, I think that's definitely a place we can add value. The second place is, if you are B2B, we can talk through how to run a proper discovery call and then also, if it helps, some stories that you already have that you can use to leverage inside of your business to recruit talent, to get more leads and generally just get yourself right on track towards the vision that you have for what you want to accomplish and what you're capable of. I think those would be some things we could cover today.

Speaker 1: 1:25

That's awesome and for listeners, you might want to buckle up, because this is going to be good for me as well. So hopefully I'll have the right questions, because we're actually revising our discovery call, so this will be good information for us as well. So, appreciate you. Well, let's introduce the show and then we'll come right back. Appreciate you. Well, let's introduce the show, and then we'll come right back. Welcome to Small Business Pivots, a podcast designed for small business owners. I'm your host, michael Morrison, a small business coach and founder of BOSS, where we make business ownership simplified for success, so that you can own a business that runs without you. To learn more, go to businessownershipsimplifiedcom. Well, welcome back to Small Business Pivots. Again, we have a very special guest, and the topics that he has chosen to help us with today help me as well. So where do you want to get started? I know you were talking mindset, trials, tribulations, anything you want to share of how you overcame some things adulting or growing up.

Speaker 2: 2:28

Don't think. Sometimes I begrudgingly can't believe I'm an adult and how old I am, but my joints remind me every day, every time I go up a stairwell, I think my journey really started. I mean, I've been selling stuff my whole life in some way, shape or form, like I would buy stuff at a garage sale and flip it for a profit. I would sell ice pops that are getting those big 300 count things from Costco and sell those for a quarter and get some candy money, as you were. But I think I got formally into sales around the time period of like 2010, 2011, when podcasts were just coming out. I remember I was working in the construction business as a project manager in New York City and I'd just listen to podcasts because I'd be between the office and the site, so I'd have a nice 20, 30 minute time where I could just listen to whatever I wanted. And the young man I was at the time I would be dreaming about wanting to be an entrepreneur. I kind of knew what it was but didn't know what it would take, and I did that for probably three or four years until one day I was at the Backrat Hotel and Suites in Midtown Manhattan I think it's on 6th Avenue and 53rd Street, still there, and I was part of that project from when it was a hole in the ground until it was completed, with its $75 million duplex apartment on the top of it, and so my job was to do inspections and walk down from the top of the building all the way down to the construction entrance, and the building was basically done. So I walked with my foreman. We get to the construction entrance after about two, three hours of walking every room, every floor, writing stuff on the pages, and he's showing me pictures on his phone. We're having a laugh at something. Then he taps my shoulder and says hey, let's go to lunch. And I take one step forward and a cement block falls right where I was standing. I didn't have my gear on because the building was done. I didn't have a helmet on and I literally just missed it. And the foreman's name is Kenny and Kenny looks at me and he's like not everybody gets a chance like that. You're here for something.

Speaker 2: 4:31

So I lost my appetite and I was like yeah, man, I can't go to lunch right now and, fortunately for my role, like could be out of the office for a while without too many questions and I just went on like a two hour walk through Manhattan and just thinking about my life. I was like I literally a two hour walk through Manhattan and just thinking about my life. I was like I literally I got a new chance. And so what I came to the conclusion of after about two hours of walking was like I'm going to die one day anyway. If I'm going to, I might as well be pursuing something that's really interesting to me and what I want. And I knew in my heart I was like I want to have my own business. And so that was probably one of the first mindset changes where it's like all right, I need to change what I'm doing in order to actualize the person I want to be. And I had no idea what to do from there. But I luckily had a very, very good friend still one of my best friends to this day who's a couple like six or seven years older than me, further on his career. I told him what happened. He's like hey, let's go to dinner, let's talk about what you want to do. And from that dinner the big nugget was you need a network. I don't have the network you're looking for, so I can't give you those contacts, but go, build a network and from there I've never stopped meeting people and adding value to people asking questions.

Speaker 2: 5:38

And I think that I would say is the second big mindset shift of if you want something, if you are focused on achieving something, there's definitely someone around you who has it or knows someone who does. So you need to be able to frame yourself with the right asks to be able to access people. So what does that mean? I would say to anybody listening take five, 10 minutes after this podcast, of course, or even pause the podcast and come back and write down anything that you would consider, something you want or that you could ask. So if you have an ask ready, whenever you meet people, you could say, oh, I'm looking for a new VP of sales inside of my company who has these types of values. The fact that you put that out there and you have that ready makes a lot of other people in tune with who you are and what you're looking for, and they can bring that to you.

Speaker 2: 6:28

So when you hear all this talk about oh be, abundance and manifest, yeah, sure, but in the non-woo-woo sense, you help people. Help you by telling them what you need and by you labeling it yourself. So spend some time and like, really do some soul searching what is it I want in my business, what am I missing in my business? And have those asks ready, always have an ask. And that would be the third big mindset shift that has helped me in my career.

Speaker 2: 6:55

Because once you meet those people you're like, well, you know what. You probably need a coach. And I'm telling you, if you're an entrepreneur, you definitely need a coach. I don't care what level you're at. Like you need somebody who's not involved in your business and it will objectively tell you like that's not serving what you want. And I know that's hard medicine and we're moderately successful right, we're doing multiple six figures, whatever else, maybe seven for some of us listening. But you need someone again who you could trust, who's going to call you out on that BS mindset that you have, because that's mainly the thing that has you stuck, if you are stuck where you are.

Speaker 1: 7:35

That's good advice, and it's almost like you listened to our last recorded podcast, but I know you didn't because we haven't uploaded it yet but that's exactly what we talked about was ask If you need help, ask the power of people to overcome trials and tribulations, just ask.

Speaker 1: 7:48

We had someone come into our office not too long ago and they were frustrated about well, I keep reaching out to this person and they won't call me back. And I said, have you asked them to call you back? Well, no, and that little forward thing. I was like, no, you got to. If you whatever you want, you have to specifically say what you want. People want to be told. If not, they don't want to bother you. So great, great advice. So you went stumbling around in New York. You decided I'm going to be an entrepreneur. Tell us a little bit about the start of that.

Speaker 2: 8:23

Yeah, it took another couple of years. I want to mention one other piece on what you just said, where it's like have an ask, I read four books every year. The same four books every. I read more than that too, but there's four I make sure to read every year, one of which is the Alchemist by Paolo Coelho. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend Short read, fun read, but there's a quote in there that I love. It says when you know what you want, the universe conspires to help you achieve it. So when we come back to asks and we come back to knowing what it is that you want, if you're outwardly telling people and putting that out to the world, people know what it is and they can bring that towards you. So I just want to put that out to anybody. That's definitely a huge thing For my journey, how I got into it.

Speaker 2: 9:07

So after that I started networking around like crazy. I was like I'm going to get into sales. I don't know what other skills I have besides. You know I got the gift of gab. Maybe I'm really curious about people. I like people, I like helping and I think if I'm going to have a company, regardless of what it is I do. If I know how to sell, I'll always be able to have a business. So might as well learn the most crucial skill for business. And so some other advice. Folks were like, hey, just get a sales gig. And so I was like, okay, how do I do that? They're like I don't know.

Speaker 2: 9:38

So I went to network events like a crazy person I think. I went to four or five every week after that accident and met some people who helped me kind of hone in like on what my ask really was, which is also important, because you may know you want something but you may not know the right way to ask for it. So after about two or three months of that, I kind of had honed in on an ask. I ran into an old friend and she was like, oh, like, we're hiring for exactly that. And I was like, oh, cool. So I interviewed there, interviewed a couple of other places, and then that got me a job as an SDR, sales development representative at the bottom of the barrel, making all the cold calls, setting all the meetings, getting none of the upside. But again, the upside was the knowledge that I got.

Speaker 2: 10:20

And so I think the big part here is, regardless of your stage in your life, your business or your career, you have to keep learning, and that's a problem I see a lot of entrepreneurs get into where they think they don't need to learn anymore. And I'll tell you like, I have friends in some of my business networks who do eight figures a year. They're still devouring books, they're still going to masterminds, they're still sitting down, they're still like writing stuff and they're still honing their craft because, like, I don't know enough yet and if someone was making that much money can tell you they don't know enough yet I guarantee you do not know enough either. So sit down and learn things. And so from there I sat down, you know, I made all the calls, did all the emails, did okay, got promoted, did okay there, and then did that job for a few years and then moved into another role where I was building sales for another startup. I was in the startup space, b2b and I had that role a very short time because they built their platform on Facebook and so Facebook, as most people will know, and things like Amazon and maybe Google they changed their algorithms willy nilly with no notice and that could put companies kind of out of business, and that is very much what happened to me and that company. So they were basically one day we're like, hey, we don't need you now. So they gave me my check and sent me on my way, which was a sad day, and the fortunate side to come out of it was kind of how I really got into the trajectory I'm on now.

Speaker 2: 11:57

They hired a consultant to work with me as I built out sales and I got along super well with this guy. His name is Scott Sambucci, and Scott and I had a lot of great conversations and we built a lot of trust in that time we worked together. I'd show up to all his coaching calls and get a lot of really good information and implement it and I come back with good results. And so I wrote him a note after my role there ended and I said, hey, I just got the ax. I just wanted to say I really appreciate all the help you've given me here. I've learned so much. I look forward to working with you again sometime in the future.

Speaker 2: 12:30

And Scott, being the amazing person he is, he's like, hey, really sorry to hear that. What do you say? We hop on a phone call. Maybe I can help you figure out what's next for you. And I was like, wow, that's what an offer. So we schedule a half an hour and that half an hour turns into a three hour plus conversation where at the end, he's like, hey, I got a job for someone like you if you want it. And that's how I got into the consulting space and, under the tutelage of Scott and working with startups and being able to leverage those skill sets that I didn't think worked together, they were able to be laser focused in one direction and I think I had the most growth, the most success some of the most success, uh, in that role and kind of honed in. It's like yep, consulting is the right thing for me, uh, because, uh, the way you get to be with a lot of different businesses with different problems, and then the mindset stuff you get to work on with people, I think really speaks to me as a person, and so so, from there, I worked for Scott for a few years and then decided to jump out on my own in very late 2019.

Speaker 2: 13:30

Started 2020 off the best you could. I had a keynote speech in New York City, I had a series of workshops I got paid to do in Istanbul, turkey, and then I flew back early, early March, and I missed the travel ban by two days, and we all know what happened in the rest of 2020, which was a very tough year for me, because I just hadn't built enough pipeline. And the pipeline I built, people like, hey, I can't, I can't do it now, and so I'd say this is another mindset lesson of I think resilience is one of your biggest superpowers, because it teaches you where the fat is and where to remove that fat, to get to a thesis on where you should be heading towards, and so I think I know most people here don't want to fail. I don't want to fail either, and I wouldn't say I have failed, but I think it's only a failure if you stay where you are.

Speaker 2: 14:22

So from there, you know, I got some coaches, ran through some things that pivoted around, I achieved some milestones, still with some confusion, but I think having to like I don't want to say forced is the right word, but I don't think there's any other better word for it I had to look at the things that I didn't want to look at, that I was able to not look at when the world was open, and that's in business as well as in life, and I saw a lot of things in myself that I was like I need to change this stuff and thank God I was amenable to that and I think again. I'm still working through some of that stuff in my own ways, but I'm very aware of myself and where I need help and I know what to ask for now in ways that I never would have had I not gone through some of that tough stuff.

Speaker 1: 15:10

Consultants are powerful, aren't they?

Speaker 2: 15:13

I think some of them can be. I think they can be, but some of the ones I've been fortunate enough to meet have been amazing, Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 15:20

So what do you consult people with now that you're an entrepreneur?

Speaker 2: 15:24

Yeah. So I'm an entrepreneurial consultant and I consult with folks on sales strategy and hiring sales. So here's what I think about it. If you have a B2B business and you're a founder, you're probably doing founder-led sales. You may not like founder-led sales, as most founders I talk to don't. It's one of the first things they want to get rid of and one of the problems they do is they will hire a person being like oh, you're a salesperson, you have all the experience, you're going to grow our business and, quite frankly, sometimes that can happen. It is the 1% of times.

Speaker 2: 15:59

But, you need to build the right system to have somebody come in and work. So if you have someone with a good skillset, that's awesome, but they need to work into the system that you have. So again, sports analogies as ever, you can have the best player, but if they're in the wrong system, they're not going to get high production from them, and so you need to match the right player with the right system, and you need to have a good system that you can then share with a good player to see how they would work and understand that. So one of the things that I do is I do what I call a sales elevation roadmap, where I literally go through the entire sales assets that are inside of any organization. We review them, we grade them, we show you what a good one looks like, and then we also interview folks on the team to understand where there's potential gaps, to say, hey, here's a plan that's going to help you elevate the organization to the place that you want. Here's things that you probably haven't heard from your team that are also keeping the mindset of the company where it is. So that's one of the things I do, and then my specialty is sales call reviews.

Speaker 2: 16:56

So earlier we talked about how we can add value. One of my favorite places is the sales call, because it's a very clear indicator of the health of your business. How are you talking to your prospects? How are you doing the in the trench work of understanding what their pain points are, demonstrating value, creating next steps and growing an account that's the first place I could tell if somebody's not doing a great job in their business. That's the place we go. So I do a service where I review calls, I grade calls and then I coach reps on how to improve those things, and that's in service of increasing close rates. So those are two of the type of things I do and then, depending on the situation, I build bespoke training for teams based on the things we uncover during those audits of assets. So everything's very much. This is what I see in your organization. Here's what we're going to do for your organization to achieve your goals.

Speaker 1: 17:48

Do you feel that the business owner should have all that figured out, like the sales process, before they hire sales people?

Speaker 2: 17:59

Yes, and okay, yes, and is the old improv trick where you never say no to a thing or stop the action moving forward. So I don't think there's a hot take here. I don't think sales is ever figured out, because I'm sure you can speak even more to this than I can, michael. Sales from six figures to seven figures is different from seven figures to eight figures, and so on and so forth. It changes. So it needs to be nimble, which is why it needs to be a system. It needs to be a system because inside of a system you could see where something's breaking and then you'd know exactly what constraint to go towards and to adjust. Again, you might not know exactly what to adjust, but you know this is where a problem is. So I say all of that to say, michael, that you want to have, at the very least, have done it 10 times inside of your business. That's where I would say if you've done it 10 times successfully and you've documented at least some version of how you've gotten that thing through in a consistent way, then you are ready and you could start to think about hiring a salesperson. If you have not done that, I'm sorry, but you're not ready because you can't tell someone, hey, here's how it works, because you don't even know if it works yet. And I know that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people because you want to get done with it. But you have to think if you hire someone into a system, you're not sure if it works. The first thing is you're not setting your business up for success because you don't know what to manage.

Speaker 2: 19:22

For. Number two, if you are a leader and you can't show a person the work you've done to get them there, your leadership may be in question. Again, it depends on who, but it's very easy to question if I can't see how you've done it. And then thirdly and this is something that's close to my heart and I have some stories about this too Someone who's working at your company is giving you their life and their energy, and if you haven't properly created stuff to steward that relationship with some respect, I take exception to that I think you really need to give someone as much as you can to set them up for success if they're going to be in your company, and I've seen a lot of founders get that wrong.

Speaker 2: 20:03

I've been on the receiving in many times of that, especially in the startup space. So I'd say do as much as you can and when you do make that hire, say, hey, here's what I've done, here's what I've built so far. Review this and let us know where there's places we can improve. That's why you're here. You're of where they can potentially help the company to go and I promise you're going to help people see themselves in the vision that your company wants to put out to its customers.

Speaker 1: 20:34

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Speaker 1: 21:19

If you're enjoying the podcast, make sure to stay connected by hitting that subscribe button, giving us a thumbs up or leaving a positive review. Your support keeps us going. Now let's get back to our incredible guest. As well as save time and money, because I know some business owners that we work with don't have a sales playbook. They don't even have a system. They haven't figured out sales themselves, so they hire somebody that's a rock star salesperson from somewhere else. Well, they were probably a rock star because they had a sales playbook. And then this rock star comes over and they fail. They spend three months just trying to figure out what your widget is, who your target audience is, where's demographics and what networking events to go to. And then the business owner gets frustrated. We have that. We have so many business owners come to us when do I find a good sales person? That's, and as soon as they ask that question, I'm like you probably don't have a sales playbook, because if you did, you there's lots of great sales people out there.

Speaker 2: 22:20

There's tons. And I would also say this is a question I've been hearing a lot and I think especially in weird markets like we're in now, people are like I'm not sure what to do. But I always say you're better off hiring on mindset than you are on skill set, because chances are, no matter how well I did at company A, your way is going to be a little different. Your customers are a little bit different the value prop, the stories, all this other stuff. So you want someone who understands that they have to then learn the new way or a way, and that is a mindset issue. It is not a skillset issue, because I could be the top performer at this one company. Again, most of that stuff will translate, but if I'm selling mortgages and then we're selling software, now it's not the same thing. They don't translate. So I would say, as another homework assignment if you want to pause the podcast here, write down or just collate everything you've done in your sales process to win a deal, from first contact to sign contract. Put it all in a book as much as you can. It doesn't have to be pretty, but you have to be able to explain someone how we got from here to here and why you made those decisions. If you can do that and you've done that enough times you're going to be able to explain to a high quality salesperson with a good mindset how they can then take that narrative and extend that across the board to grow the company and, of course, grow their own goals.

Speaker 2: 23:39

Ah, one other thing here, michael. This is something I see as a huge miss for a lot of companies. They hire salespeople, they give them a number to hit, but they don't help the person that they're hiring see themselves in the number. So what do I mean there? What are you saving up for? Is there a financial goal you have? Is there a thing that you want in your life? And having that goal be tied into how we're going to do what we need to do for the company, and then make that something that you as a manager have visibility on, so you can challenge that person on, share resources on them, be like oh, you're looking at houses in this area. I saw these cops. Get them motivated like we're on the same team, and you'd be surprised how much more production you could pull out of people when you make it about them, just like you do with your clients and customers.

Speaker 1: 24:26

Great advice you mentioned earlier discovery calls. Oh yes, can you cover that a little bit, cause that's, that's huge.

Speaker 2: 24:35

Yeah, absolutely so. I have a nine step framework. I call it the OCGC model, which stands for opening, creating the gap and closing, and, for anybody interested, I will give you a copy of the script completely for free. If you go to stephensteerscom slash podcasts, you will get all the resources there. There's a bunch of stuff that might be useful for you, but there's nine phases to a good and solid discovery call, and the first one, I think, is we need to establish, first and foremost, an agenda.

Speaker 2: 25:08

So again, rapport. Hey, hi, how you doing? Michael, it's great to be here with you today. Where are you in the world Like blah, blah, blah? Always good to have rapport, but from there, we need to get people on the same page for what we're going to cover today. So, as a quick example, michael, it's great to be here with you today. I have a really light agenda. The first thing I want to do is get to know a little bit more about you and your business and what you guys are working on. Then I want to share a little bit about us, what we're working on and if there's any synergies that we uncover based on our conversation today, we'll schedule some more time to talk about what those might look like. Does that sound good?

Speaker 1: 25:40

Absolutely, let's go.

Speaker 2: 25:42

Okay. So I want to break that down. I'd say this may be one of the most important things in a sales call the agenda. Here's why, if you listen to it, michael and I in that role play just signed a verbal contract at the start of the call and that verbal contract was if there are any synergies, we will schedule more time to discuss what those look like. So I've already got Michael to agree to what the next steps will be if it is determined that there is a fit or a match. That's the first big, big important part of putting an agenda. The second thing is it lowers cortisol and sales resistance to have an agenda because you're not like, hey, I'm going to pitch you some stuff or I'm expecting a big pitch, right, I'm sure we've all been on calls any listeners where it's like, ah, I'm just waiting for this person to just ask me for money. It's gross. But an agenda says, hey, we're going to uncover stuff together and if there is something, we'll talk about what that looks like and 99 out of a hundred people will say, yes, that makes sense and you'll see them relax into the call because they know we're just going to talk to each other and we're not going to get sold something, and that's really important.

Speaker 2: 26:52

Scott Sambucci, same mentor I mentioned earlier, he has a quote that I love and he says if it feels like you're selling, you're doing it wrong. So it should not feel like you are selling, it should feel like a conversation and, like Scott says, like you are opening doors for people. It should feel really easy to just talk to someone and say hey. So, based on what you said here, here's what I recommend and that is the start of a really strong relationship. So that's one of the first is an agenda. The second thing I'd say is you want to know why people are on the phone. So a question, I like.

Speaker 2: 27:27

I call it the kryptonite question. I say kryptonite for those that don't know. Superman's one weakness is kryptonite. It's a piece of his own planet and he becomes a normal man and a weak one, which is an interesting story, a narrative piece. But I think a kryptonite question is the equivalent of an open book test for sales. Why is that? I'm dating myself here, but when I was coming up in school, every once in a while a teacher would be like hey, you could bring your textbook to the test. That's like, oh man, great. I could just get all the answers Same thing in a sales call. If we ask this question, which is hey.

Speaker 2: 28:02

So, michael, what made you hop on the phone with me today, we have a complete context for what they're thinking about, what limitations they've sought and the emotions that they're putting behind their reason for getting on the call with us. And I say that's the kryptonite piece, because that gives us almost everything we need to know how to address the rest of the conversation, to make our corresponding pitch or offer that's going to align with what they're looking for. And also it could be like well, actually that's not something we can help you with. It's very quick place and very early place in the call where you can qualify somebody in or out and then know what playbook to use for the rest of the call. Once you get there, you want to know where somebody wants to go. So the equivalent I say is they want to go to Thailand with with their business, right, that big, huge goals. Eight, nine figures awesome, that's great. Take them to that big, big goal that they want for themselves. Get them in that state of excitement for what they want to achieve. And then we want to take them back down a little bit to where are they now? And I say this is really important. I don't want this to come off like it's manipulation, but it's important to mention. 95% of buying decisions take place in the subconscious, which means we make those decisions emotionally, and that remaining 5% of decision criteria comes in from the emotions that are then put into a logic. So when I say it's important to establish and create emotions in a sales call because that's when someone's going to make a decision, that's how we get people into a decision-making place we're not trying to push anybody into doing anything they don't want to do, but we want them to be in a space where they will respond and make a decision. Even if it's a no, that's fine too. I'd rather a no than hey, get back to me any day. But we want people to feel like they can make a decision, and an emotion is a great way. So by going where they wanted to go and then creating that space where they are not yet there, we now have a gap, and inside of that gap and the larger the gap is, the easier it is for us to fit our products or services inside of Okay.

Speaker 2: 30:14

The next piece from there is. We want to uncover what's in the way. So why don't you have those things yet? Oh, my mindset's missing. I don't have the right salesperson, I don't have a playbook, I don't know what to do, whatever that thing is for your product or service. That's a very clear way to help your prospect feel seen and heard, because they're labeling the things that they've already identified as what is missing, for why they don't have what they want, which gives us clear ammunition to say oh well, you mentioned these, here's how we can help you with those specific things right After we've got there. This is another thing I think is an essential, essential piece of a good and solid discovery call, and this is summarizing. Okay, after you've gotten the prospect to unburden themselves with things that are frustrating, where they want to go, their big goals and needs and desires.

Speaker 2: 31:05

Summarize to make sure that you were listening properly. The power of summary is the following. Number one there's a framework I subscribe to that I call name it, tame it, claim it. Once you've named something for somebody, we now have all the things we need to do to tame that thing and make it less opaque and scary. And once we've tamed it, we can then claim it by creating frameworks, joining programs and then creating a plan that our coaches or other folks can hold us accountable to to achieve those goals. So a summary allows you to name it, tame it and claim it for the person. And then you get to ask the important question did I miss anything? And they can tell you if you missed something or otherwise.

Speaker 2: 31:45

Now the other thing we solve for there is one of the principle, three objections. So there's three objections you're going to experience in sales Is this going to work? Is now the right time and can I afford it? The thing right there is is this going to work? Is going through those situations that you clearly understand my needs. There's something here for us to do. I've gotten some clarity on that.

Speaker 2: 32:11

What we do after we summarize what I recommend anyway is, after they said, yep, you've got it all down, you share a story or a case study about somebody who was in a similar position or similar situation that is analogous to what they have. You share that and then you ask if they potentially want similar results. And now we've completed the yes, will this work? Objection. We've solved for that at least to some degree right there by walking through the process that way. From there we then can go into our offer. All right.

Speaker 2: 32:40

So, based on what you said, it sounds like these are the three things you needed. Here's what we built to potentially help you with that situation. Can I share that? Yes, and then you can walk through what your offer is and how it corresponds as much as possible. Always try to tie back whatever your offer is to those things you summarized, because there's parity right. It follows the thread and helps close the loops. After you've gotten that done hopefully you've done a good job you want to try to close the call. So a stat. I was doing some research for a keynote I did at a microconf in Atlanta earlier this year, teaching a similar framework for folks 48% of sales calls end without an attempt to close the sale. That means asking for the business. That means asking for another meeting. That means just creating some type of next step, which is scary stuff.

Speaker 1: 33:33

Goes back to asking right we talked about that earlier.

Speaker 2: 33:37

Yeah, it's a huge thing. So people have to ask for what they want, and so the last step here is it's called BAMFAM. It's not an acronym that I created, but it stands for book, a meeting from a meeting. How many of you listening have had a prospect say yep, we'll talk again? And you're still sending them emails six months a year, however many, much longer, later probably every listener everybody, myself included.

Speaker 2: 33:59

Right, I'm still waiting for responses from 2015,. But I say that to say asking for a meeting or creating the next step and going through the steps as we've described them makes it much clearer why we're going to book another step, because we're making it about the needs that they have. And then the other thing this is another type of contract. What do I mean by asking for a meeting? If the prospect will not book the meeting, they're not as serious about solving their problem as they said they might be. You want to challenge them on that. If they're not willing to follow our process, they're potentially not a great client for us. So have you ever heard, michael, of a guy named Dean Jackson?

Speaker 1: 34:46

No, I haven't.

Speaker 2: 34:47

So he has a framework called the five-star prospect or sorry, five-star, I think it's five-star clients.

Speaker 2: 34:55

That's what it is, five-star clients. And I want to share that with your listeners because I think it's super valuable, cause I think another thing about good discovery calls my opinion, they're more about qualifying somebody out of your products or services than they are about qualifying somebody in. So we want to have as many tripwires in a discovery call where we can say that wasn't a fit. This is why and so I like the five-star framework, because it illustrates very clearly, like some of the ways you can start to think about how to qualify people out of your business, cause I'm sure all of us here have taken on clients we shouldn't have taken on, that didn't fit and we want to avoid that. So Dean Jackson's framework is the following the first, the five-star prospects, is a willingness to engage with you. So that means they're responsive to the way you're interacting with them and they're following your process. So if you won't book a call with me for the second call, that's how I do it, which means you're putting on an affront to some degree for how I do business. That's a red flag. It's not a complete black flag, but it is a red flag. The second thing is they're friendly and cooperative, rather than challenging you at every turn. So they're going to say, yep, michael gets it. Michael's helped hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs to achieve these ends. I'm going to go with what Michael says. That's a really early indicator of someone who can be successful in our work or our programming because they're like yep, you got it. I'm going to follow what you say. We want to see as early of an indicator as that as possible, especially in a services business, because we're dealing with people right. We're humans solving human problems in a business context and if we are not dealing with friendly, cooperative people, we're in for a long engagement. That's probably, most of the time, not worth the money. I know I've had some of those in my career, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:40

The third is the prospect knows what they want or they know what they don't want, which is kind of the same thing, as long as they're very clear about like I want this, I want this outcome. You want someone that knows what they want, because no goals are very hard to work with. We don't have something that is holding everybody else accountable. The fourth thing is the prospect is ready to get it right. Now is the time for them, there's urgency. So that why now?

Speaker 2: 37:05

Question is a really important one for knowing what drove them to finally click the button and hop on the phone with us, if that's how we run our process. And then this is the final one. This is a really interesting one.

Speaker 2: 37:16

The fifth one is the prospect wants our help rather than just anyone's help. They've identified from our lead magnets, our content, conversations or referrals or whatever way they came into our ecosystem, that we are the person to help them and we want to give that as another tripwire to be clear about how we can get people through the door. So I say all that to say to come back to the framework using Dean Jackson's five-star prospects is asking for the meeting is a clear tripwire to know if the person is serious about solving their problem or if they're just a punter and it wasn't the best use of our time. So if they are willing to book, let's do it and let's move them through the process. But that's a very clear way to run a nice call that feels like a conversation, gets people into your world and ecosystem with good storytelling and helps them feel seen and heard and, most importantly, allows you to qualify them in or qualify them out in a very short amount of time.

Speaker 2: 38:18

You unpacked a lot there, there was a lot, that was certainly a lot.

Speaker 1: 38:20

That's some valuable information. So I do have one question that I think most people are asking how do you get these people on the phone? Is this from lead generation or is that you know? Because I think that's a lot of people's troubles right now as well. People are overpitched, you know, so a lot of us are reluctant to even answer the phone or an email or a DM or anything like that. Do you have some advice for that?

Speaker 1: 38:50

Yeah, I definitely do, I think, and again take it with a grain of salt here, but I think another homework assignment.

Speaker 2: 38:58

We're getting a lot of homework for your list today, michael. I had to go through this too right, because I think the market's changing a lot. So I used to do a fair amount of cold email and it hasn't worked super great in the past year or so. So that's a little tough. You have LinkedIn stuff also not working in the same way it would. It still works, but not in the same volume that you could have expected previously. So what I did was I went through my entire business and here's the homework.

Speaker 2: 39:26

Look at all the clients you've won over the past year or two years. Again, this is gonna take work. If you want some help, you know hit me up or whatever. But here's the framework. Look at every deal you've won the past two years. Where did you get the deal? How much you won the deal for? What services you rendered for them? Did you enjoy working with them?

Speaker 2: 39:47

Let's just start with those few criteria. If you go down the line, I guarantee you're going to see a notable pattern for where you got your customers. That should be a huge, or probably the 80-20 of your strategy. So I think any business should be running cold email because what it's automated, so if something comes in, it'll pay for itself. You get one client off a cold email. You're probably paying for what it is that you have to do, so you should have it running. Linkedin automation should also have it running. Somebody comes in for a meeting, happy days, no problem.

Speaker 2: 40:19

When I did the stuff for myself, it was very clear that speaking engagements and podcasts were some of the best performers for me, getting people into the top of the funnel. Why is that One? I think I have great hair which people like to look at, which makes me easy to deal with. But in all seriousness, there I think where the market has changed, michael, is we have a much more educated buyer than we've ever had, so they're much more discerning and they choose how they engage. So what I'd say is a challenge for folks is when you go through that audit of your own business where you've won customers, what ways can you create valuable things that they can just have to better educate them and start to create that gap in the way that they think and how you can reframe the way they think If you can give people a lot of value. I know it's going to take a little bit longer in some ways, but you build much deeper relationships with people because they're like.

Speaker 2: 41:13

You know what this guy, michael. He's completely outlaid the entire situation I'm in. He showed me the exact picture of where I'm at and where I'm planning to go and all the steps to get there. I just can't do this on my own. You've already built that trust, so I think that's one of the key places I would focus on. And there's another framework you can use to think this through. It's called the 7-4-11 framework. Have you heard of this, michael?

Speaker 1: 41:40

I have not.

Speaker 2: 41:41

Okay, it is not my framework. I don't remember where it was on Clubhouse. Some person said it in some of those rooms. This is how long ago I heard it, but it says the following you need to spend seven hours with a prospect across four platforms and make a minimum of 11 touches to get someone to make a purchase.

Speaker 2: 42:00

Now, when we say purchase that it's a lot right so you want to think about. For any business owner, going on podcast is great because people get to spend time with you and build that trust and see who you are. If you have a book, that's a couple more hours they get to spend with you. If you have content, if you have lead magnets, if you have courses or things that you can send to people so they can spend that time and build that trust, it's much easier for them to say yes. Now, michael, we're going to close the loop here with how you get people on the phone. Once you do all that, what do you got to do now? Ask people to take an action, if you'd like me to. So quick example if we have a course, right, if let's say you have a course, a five-step process to start to build your plan, to scale from six to seven figures. At the end of it, you would say, hey, if you want us to, we'd be happy to review your plan and see what it looks like. Now I've already done some work. You've got a higher value prospect who's actually taken some time to do some work and prepare themselves to speak with you, and now we're no obligations. Let's review it and see where you are and we can make an ask because we're adding value.

Speaker 2: 43:06

That's a very, very different situation than just oh book, a call book, a call book, a call. It's let's talk about you and yours. So I sell that to say, michael, that I think the opportunity now for the educated consumer is being more personalized. It's talking directly to your prospect. If you are doing cold email, which still can work in certain ways, do some research on some people. Know about their business, know about their dog, know what school they went to Make it really hyper like, oh, you had to have done some research on me. And the reason that's important is it shows if you're willing to take this much effort before we meet, I can only imagine what you might do should we work together. So create as many of those situations as possible.

Speaker 2: 43:48

Run your automations I think they're important but for those high value prospects, sit down and take the time and do the non-scalable thing, because people can feel it and that's what's going to get them to want to go on the phone with you. And lastly, in the patterns you see and whoever you've worked with, that should inform your strategy. Should you get on more stages? Should you go on more podcasts? Should you write more books? Should you whatever it is? That should pretty much be very clear about what would inform the strategy to get people to be on the phone with you, because you've already done it.

Speaker 1: 44:21

It's good information and with technology as fast as it's changing, I highly encourage business owners to always be adaptable. What works today may not literally work in 24 hours because of AI or something. I know that a lot of times that software that's out there is wrong. For instance, I literally had someone yesterday reach out to me in my DM box and put out the problems that I might be facing and it literally was is your business stuck? Et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 45:00

Well, I'm a business coach. It was almost like they looked at my webpage and copied everything I said, trying to help me, and I'm like you didn't even research me, like you're just you know. So I think a lot of so be genuine, be authentic. You know, don't go with the flow of what everybody else is doing. If someone, if you get a really cool DM or something, I say don't, don't copy theirs. You know, be yourself. I think that's also very helpful too in that process, just because I see that often, if we had a room full of business owners and they're all in different seasons of business what's something that's applicable, that you could share, that might be beneficial to all of them.

Speaker 2: 45:43

Remember that we are humans solving human problems in a business context. I said that earlier, but I really want to press on that because, especially with things like AI out here and people not knowing how that's going to go or if it's going to go places, what it's going to replace or otherwise, there's a huge, huge benefit to having someone hear, feel and see that you are taking the time to be a human with them. That is such a high value thing and I don't want to misplace I don't want anyone to misplace the value of that. Automation's great Machines are great, they're helpful to us, but at the end of the day, is a machine signing that contract to work with you? No, it's not. It's a person. It's a person whose problem you are solving. So I would say dive into that whatever way you can.

Speaker 2: 46:33

If you're in the earlier seasons of your career, get on the phone with people. Just talk to them. Don't offer to sell anything. Just try to understand where they are. Even at the higher levels of business, I think you can do that. But again, especially if you're earlier on, talk to people. Understand where they are, ask what challenges they have. Be a resource, do the non-scalable thing, because that's how you learn what to scale.

Speaker 2: 46:54

And the other thing that happens with that that's really important is, if you treat someone well, they will tell people you treated them well and that becomes your reputation inside of the marketplace. Like Michael, helped my business grow leaps and bounds, was super patient with me, introduced me to great people, put me out in the world and it made me more visible. You should talk to Michael, right? So at the end of the day, here we give people the stories to tell about us, and the stories are our business card. So by being more human, more direct with people, you give people the right story to tell about you in the marketplace, and that is where you're going to get your referrals and people knocking on your door.

Speaker 1: 47:30

Well, you've been a blessing to so many people. Today Appreciate your information. If someone wants to get ahold of you, what's the best networks to do that on and how to reach out to you?

Speaker 2: 47:41

Yeah, first off, michael, thank you for having me. This is a fun conversation or mostly me talking, but still, nonetheless, I had a great time. Thank you for creating this space. For anyone who wants to reach out to me, I'm all over LinkedIn Stephen S-T-E-P-H-E-N, steers S-T-E-E-R-S. That's where you can connect with me and if you want any of the resources we discussed today, a call reviewed that you're currently doing your process. I'll do it a hundred percent for free. Just sign up on that same page. It's stephensteerscom slash podcast, with a no S on the end, and you can get any of the resources that I might be able to leverage and give you value with. But until we meet, All right.

Speaker 1: 48:22

Well, thanks again, wish you much more success in the future. And listeners, please reach out to Stephen. He is a wealth of information. We just barely dipped our toe in the water today, didn't we? We just gave them a little bit, but they have a lot of homework to do too, so you gave us a lot of information. So thanks again and wish you much success.

Speaker 2: 48:42

Likewise Michael, God bless.

Speaker 1: 48:45

Thank you for listening to Small Business Pivots. Please don't forget to subscribe and share this podcast. If your business is stuck, you need help creating a business that can run without you, or you need a fast business loan or line of credit, go to our website businessownershipsimplifiedcom and schedule a free consultation to learn why small business success starts with Boss. If you want to talk anything small business related, email me at michael at michaeldmorrisoncom. We'll see you next time on Small Business Pivots.